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Post by Lamebeaver on May 5, 2016 13:20:37 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 14:53:17 GMT -8
According to the source: That is a problem in many wilderness areas. As we encourage others to take up the activity of backpacking, we need to emphasize spreading the impact out. There are many reasons for certain areas to experience over-popularity. Maybe they are close to population centers, have especially scenic landmarks, offer "bragging rights" or trophy photo opportunities. But the wilderness is limited. If visitation is not spread out to less-popular and less-impacted areas, the wilderness will not be able to withstand the growth of population and whatever percentage of that population take up backpacking. Inevitably there will likely be quotas on many more wilderness areas if backpackers and other trail users do not take the responsibility to spread out to other areas. Sometimes Leave No Trace may have to mean Go Somewhere Else.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on May 5, 2016 15:00:48 GMT -8
I guess this was inevitable.
The wife and I hiked up to Buckskin Pass back in the late 80s. At that time, there was no control at all and no passes or anything required to hike the trail. It was a bit crowded up to the lake, with kids, dayhikers, runners everywhere - like shoppers at a mall: it was that crowded.
When we got to Crater Lake, we hiked up the Minnehaha Gulch Trail to alpine meadows, but the pass was still "snowed in" (June), so we turned back. And that was 1987, I believe. By the time I got up there again some 10 or 12 years later, there was an entry gate and a fee to be paid, even before the little campground where we stayed the previous time, along Maroon Creek. A new high school and a lot of development outside of Aspen also. So, yeah: inevitable.
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Deborah
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Post by Deborah on May 5, 2016 17:26:27 GMT -8
Not surprising and probably should have happened several years ago.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 5, 2016 18:33:52 GMT -8
That "trophy" phenomena shouldn't be underestimated. Yosemite reports they get 10 times the applications for "The John Muir Trail"'as the quotas can handle (so there are days 90% of the applications are rejected). People post applying thirty and forty times for that one route start: which is ridiculous. Half Dome is now a lottery with similar fetish vibes. Mt. Whitney has been that way for quite a while.
Nice enough places or routes but come on, that's a huge mountain range with endless wonder. Some sort of self reinforcing phenomena going on?
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on May 5, 2016 18:50:58 GMT -8
Not surprising and probably should have happened several years ago. Probably so. I'm glad I got the chance before it's popularity truly skyrocketed. There really aren't all that many good campsites relative to the amount of traffic, so the same places get used night after night in season.
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on May 6, 2016 5:26:50 GMT -8
It's a nationwide draw but crowded a few years back in the high season. Not only backpackers from all over, but many shuttle companies drop dayhikers off on one side and pick them up on the other. It's a lot of hikers...
There is an off season but got to be good with snowy conditions.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on May 6, 2016 5:32:34 GMT -8
Not surprising and probably should have happened several years ago. Agree. We did this as a family hike in 2011. The issue and over-usage became very apparent upon reaching Snowmass Lake and continued over Buckskin Pass to the trailhead. I had hiked Snowmass Peak in 1991. Visiting the same area 20 years later it was very apparent that a major degradation area directly adjacent to the lake had developed and was clearly noticeable. Hopefully, the Forest Service will take appropriate action to restore damaged areas and limit use. I expect to see more limit and permit actions in future.
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Post by paula53 on May 6, 2016 11:50:44 GMT -8
I think that this is only the beginning. I can see it happening in the Desolation Wilderness, and Northern Yosemite as well.
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Post by hikerjer on May 6, 2016 17:24:56 GMT -8
Sadly, probably a necessary evil
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tarol
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Post by tarol on May 7, 2016 5:22:42 GMT -8
Already happening in Desolation, as far back as 1998 - which is the year I started working there and issued permits with quotas for that wilderness area.
I'm all for limiting use in over-used Wilderness areas with a permit system. But I'm for doing it strategically. Quotas should make sense for the specific trail and its issues. And issuing permits and tracking quotas is not something a forest/park can take on without additional staff, or what I prefer, having done it for so long, is having the system handled automatically through recreation.gov. There there is a fee for the user, at least $6, but the advantages are numerous. Being able to get a permit online is worth the $6 IMHO. I've managed permit systems where walk-in was the only method - but for offices not open when the users need their permits that doesn't work well. I've managed permit systems where fax and/or mail was the secondary method - what a nightmare that was. All for online convenience, from both the issuer's and the user's perspective.
Personally I avoid the quota areas, especially on weekends. I like a true wilderness experience if I can help it.
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Post by absarokanaut on May 7, 2016 7:59:38 GMT -8
I love the Wind Rivers, but the crowds are one of the reasons why my favorite place on earth is the true headwaters area of the Wind in the SW Absaroka Mountains.
A few years back they put in serious overnight fees for the south Colony Lakes drainage on the Eastern slope of the Sangres in the San Isabel National Forest, Colorado. They had closed down the old 4WD "road" and rehabilitated lots of damage. I DO NOT like the fees at all since it now receives far less penetration and they made it so a family/group of four would have to pay a hundred bucks for a weekend backpack. That's not a lot of money for SOME people, but for the hundred thousand or so low income people of Pueblo just 60 miles away it's a deal breaker.
I say cancel a couple of F-22 Raptors and get rid of all Federal Public lands fees for five years or more. Keep the permits to make it a great experience, but don't price ALL of our less fortunate neighbors off THEIR public lands. Where's a real conservative when you need one?
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 7, 2016 13:43:58 GMT -8
"Personally I avoid the quota areas, especially on weekends. I like a true wilderness experience if I can help it.'
I've a slightly different strategy: I'll head out from a quota TH, BUT, more or less immediately make a big right or left turn and head OFF from "The Trail", and in close to all cases I've left every sign of people behind in 100 meters. Heck I've done that same thing, with the same results, in frickin' Yosemite Valley: the EAST end too...
Tiny secret? Wilderness types usually turn up their noses at the "touron holidays" and that means the vast majority of visitors at those times won't leave the conga line. Shhhhh!
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Post by hikerjer on May 9, 2016 19:42:30 GMT -8
That's not a lot of money for SOME people, but for the hundred thousand or so low income people of Pueblo just 60 miles away it's a deal breaker. Come on, John. You sound like you don't think they knew that when they imposed those fees. Just another example of the government catering to the whims and wishes of the wealthy. You can't convenience me they didn't know what they were doing or that they cared.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on May 10, 2016 6:57:59 GMT -8
A hundred bucks is a lot. That would make me turn elsewhere. But I will point out that many people who cry about having to pay $20 to get into a park or something will a) bring about $100 of beer and chips with them, and b) spend thousands to go to Disneyland, etc. Sometimes it's just the choices people want to make.
$100 is a lot for a weekend of backpacking, but is less than 2 nights in a Motel 6. Less than 1 night in most decent motels.
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