BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,929 
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Post by BigLoad on Apr 19, 2016 10:59:06 GMT -8
Can a smart phone really capture and hold satellite signals as well as a $400+ dedicated GPS for hiking, especially in heavy forest cover or canyons? Also, which smart phones are the best for this -- Android vs I-phone, for instance? Most of what makes a GPS expensive is what makes a smart phone expensive, too: lots of processing power, fancy display, and a lot of software. With so much market pressure for more power efficiency and faster acquisition time, phone manufacturers have probably taken the lead in these areas. I'm less certain about multipath resolution, which is one area where some dedicated GPS units outperformed them. In practice, I've had fairly good results with a smart phone in canyons and haven't noticed any huge differences when operating both at the same time, but I haven't done too much of that. I still always bring my GPS and my phone is only there because I'd rather have it with me than leave it sitting in the car (just like my credit cards). |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Apr 19, 2016 13:53:32 GMT -8
Since the GPS system with more recent iOS versions is not disabled with the setting of airplane mode it's certainly testable more conveniently than when you'd have to have been solidly out of cell service range to guarantee your seeing only the GPS performance.
Some might have done that.
ETA: looking for something else I did come across that the iPhone 6s location system utilizes both GPS and glonass
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Post by kwpapke on Apr 19, 2016 16:12:44 GMT -8
Can a smart phone really capture and hold satellite signals as well as a $400+ dedicated GPS for hiking, especially in heavy forest cover or canyons? Also, which smart phones are the best for this -- Android vs I-phone, for instance? Not my blog, but pretty spot on IMHO: article on smartphone GPS performance |
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driftwoody
Trail Wise!
Take the path closer to the edge, especially if less traveled
Posts: 14,994
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Post by driftwoody on Apr 19, 2016 16:33:53 GMT -8
Can a smart phone really capture and hold satellite signals as well as a $400+ dedicated GPS for hiking, especially in heavy forest cover or canyons? Also, which smart phones are the best for this -- Android vs I-phone, for instance? Not my blog, but pretty spot on IMHO: article on smartphone GPS performanceThanks. That's a nice article, but it doesn't really go into which smart phones are best. I actually have the Gaia app, but my android device hasn't held a signal very well. My current smart phone (Samsung galaxy S2) wasn't adequate for the app, so my wife gave me her Samsung Tab4 (large 7" screen). Battery life wasn't an issue for these hikes, so I kept it on to record tracks in moderately hilly forested terrain (airplane mode). The tracks showed when the signal was lost, with a straight line from the last held position until it found me again (straight across a lake, for example). This experience has not given me confidence that such a device equals a dedicated GPS for hiking. It could be that the Tab4 doesn't have the latest & greatest tech that the new devices have. I'm due for a new android smart phone soon, which is why I'm interested in which will be best for this app. |
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Post by dayhiker on Apr 19, 2016 20:01:32 GMT -8
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Post by kwpapke on Apr 20, 2016 12:48:40 GMT -8
Here is another article, actually pretty informative on smartphone GPS performance: "GPS Accuracy – When using an iPhone in shallow grade mountains or flat landscapes, with minor tree cover, the accuracy has consistently been within 15 meters. When using it in deep steep walled canyons, the fix is not as accurate as Garmin, 50 to 100 or more meters off in a deep canyon (Paria Canyon in Utah). Using a Garmin and an iPhone 4 we concurrently recorded tracks on 12 miles of trail in fairly dense conifers on the west slope of California’s Sierra Nevada range and could not tell any difference in accuracy. We leave it to the reader make their own determination if this level of accuracy is sufficient."
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Post by kwpapke on Apr 20, 2016 12:56:01 GMT -8
Here is a very comprehensive article comparing a DSLR to P&S to iphone. Bottom line: "THE VERDICT: In every instance, the DSLR is going to take a higher-quality image. It has many times more options and the larger file sizes, which allow for clearer and increased detail, especially when enlarged or printed. But for everyday shooting and sharing of photos, the iPhone does a surprisingly good job. iPhone images are optimized for viewing on an iPhone as well, so if you're taking pictures to text, email, SnapChat, or upload to Facebook, an iPhone will do a fine job. The point and shoot is the odd camera out." This is pretty much what I said in the video and here in the forum. If you are a hardcore photographer, lug your DSLR. If your point-and-shoot just died (like mine did last year), use (maybe after an upgrade) your smartphone instead of spending the $ on another low-end camera.
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Post by kwpapke on Apr 20, 2016 13:09:37 GMT -8
While I certainly respect the opinion of the OP, I cannot disagree more. If anyone is even remotely serious, or even playful, with or about photography, an iPhone or an Android (my personal choice) is simply not flexible enough nor of high enough quality to produce desired effects. Night shots, high definition images, high contrast shots, macro photos, all of these are simply not doable (with any real results) with a phone. And a GPS? Well, I'm not a big fan of using a GPS as once the battery dies you're out of luck. Furthermore, depleting your phones battery (especially one iPhones which have a ridiculous non-replaceable battery) is simply asking for trouble if an emergency comes up. A map and a compass is not only more reliable, but it will never fail or stop working, at least in the hands of a capable backpacker. An iPhone is simply a cheap cop out for those who are serious about either... Dedicated hardware is always the way to go. Macro photos: I am a Nikon guy from way back. Nothing beats my old Micro-nikkor 55mm lens with reversing ring. I did a LOT of macrophotography. Many of the lens kits available now for smartphones also have a macro lens if that is really important. For most of my needs now, I find if I select the FOV that I want in-focus on my iPhone screen, can get in close enough for the wildflower photos I want to take in the backcountry. |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Apr 20, 2016 19:06:38 GMT -8
The optical zoom on my Canon P&S beats anything my iPhone offers. And they both have image stabilization while the Canon's sensor chip is larger.
They both pale versus my dSLR but that's a different weight category.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Apr 20, 2016 19:09:37 GMT -8
Here is another article, actually pretty informative on smartphone GPS performance: "GPS Accuracy – When using an iPhone in shallow grade mountains or flat landscapes, with minor tree cover, the accuracy has consistently been within 15 meters. When using it in deep steep walled canyons, the fix is not as accurate as Garmin, 50 to 100 or more meters off in a deep canyon (Paria Canyon in Utah). Using a Garmin and an iPhone 4 we concurrently recorded tracks on 12 miles of trail in fairly dense conifers on the west slope of California’s Sierra Nevada range and could not tell any difference in accuracy. We leave it to the reader make their own determination if this level of accuracy is sufficient." and that's s few generations back and certainly also pre-GLONASS. |
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Post by dayhiker on Apr 20, 2016 20:58:13 GMT -8
It shows how complicated it is to know if you have the power drain thing down pat, I noticed on my phone there is also a Low Power mode, in addition to Airplane Mode. Guess you have to review all this before you head out, if it has been awhile. Still a good link. Gaia and APple have power saving tips too. DPReview does phones now: connect.dpreview.com/phone-reviews?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenuCertainly phones are catching up, but cameras keep getting better too, cheaper P&S may be gone, mainly because the buyer does not care for any difference over taking a phone - I remember them saying a new generation of prime lens shooters might result from this! |
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Post by treebeard on May 1, 2016 19:36:37 GMT -8
I have an iPhone 6, and it's fantastic for GPS. I have an app called Maps 3D which allows you to download the old CalTopo topo maps for use offline, and even includes terrain info so you can review your route in 3D. I wanted a Garmin for years but am now glad I didn't spend the money.
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Post by kwpapke on May 4, 2016 7:43:57 GMT -8
I have an iPhone 6, and it's fantastic for GPS. I have an app called Maps 3D which allows you to download the old CalTopo topo maps for use offline, and even includes terrain info so you can review your route in 3D. I wanted a Garmin for years but am now glad I didn't spend the money. That's a good attitude IMHO. GaiaGPS allows you to use the CalTopo maps as well. |
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Post by desertsp on May 4, 2016 12:55:01 GMT -8
This is great! Another way to increase image quality from any lesser-quality camera is to use image "stitching" software. What you do is zoom in as far as possible with a lens, and then take a series of overlapping images to encompass the whole scene. Then you "stitch" the images together into one larger image using any number of free or professional software programs (I'm sure there are native phone apps by now too). The result doesn't necessarily need to be wide-angle, although that seems to be what most people use this technique for (because good wide-angle lenses are expensive). Wikipedia seems to have a decent explanation of the process, if anyone wants to learn more. It's been awhile since I've done this, but I was using a program called PTGui which worked very well imo.  |
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Post by kwpapke on May 15, 2016 9:40:32 GMT -8
This is great! Another way to increase image quality from any lesser-quality camera is to use image "stitching" software. I used to do this with my point-and-shoot cameras. The iPhone has a Panorama mode which pretty much eliminated my need for stitching. It only does landscape (horizontal) stitching, but works on-the-fly so you immediately see the result. |
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