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Post by hikerjer on Mar 25, 2016 18:13:34 GMT -8
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Post by Lonewolf on Mar 25, 2016 18:37:14 GMT -8
I find this one of the more interesting comments. Shows where the real concern is.
"Based on what we’ve seen in this elk herd, likely [the deaths] will impact our hunting season and hunter opportunity," he said.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Mar 25, 2016 18:50:27 GMT -8
A few years back the overall population was 93,000 so what is it now?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 1:16:04 GMT -8
Let's see. When a wolf pack kills 19 elk in an historically overpopulated herd, it's treated as some sort of depredation. But when humans kill a thousand bison, an historically underpopulated species, it's treated as wildlife management. The humans donate the meat to others in their own species. The wolves donate the meat to other species.
I wonder if the wolf news media finds our actions as puzzling and we seem to find theirs.
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Post by bradmacmt on Mar 26, 2016 6:43:17 GMT -8
I've seen "sport killing" by wolves in the past, and have talked with the local Federal Wolf Specialist about it. He tends to think this sort of indiscriminate killing (he's seen it as well) is generally by juvenile males. They seem to get into a sort of blood lust and just overdue it. Think teenage boys with teenage brains. Here's a pretty good graph showing the recent history of wolf vs. human elk kills:  |
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Post by bradmacmt on Mar 26, 2016 6:45:53 GMT -8
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Post by hikerjer on Mar 26, 2016 10:24:46 GMT -8
Wow,great photos. Where was that?
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Post by bradmacmt on Mar 26, 2016 10:55:41 GMT -8
Jer, that was in Jackson, WY, on private property not too far from the Nat'l Elk Refuge.
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Post by hikerjer on Mar 26, 2016 12:14:17 GMT -8
Cool. Hope to be headed to Jackson in May to visit a friend.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Mar 26, 2016 14:06:19 GMT -8
Wolves kill elk. They don't stop and say "let's see, we can only eat 10, was that 8 or 9?"
Sometimes they kill more than they need, sometimes they kill less and go hungry.
We shouldn't try to look at this with a frame we humans would call noble.
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Post by absarokanaut on Mar 26, 2016 14:21:12 GMT -8
Great pics brad. Have you seen the one enormous ram on Miller Butte? That's a big sheep.
She looks like the one I saw on the Gros Ventre River a couple miles downstream from the Park Campground last spring. They killed 10 wolves out of that pack and kept it all pretty quiet apparently.
I haven't been keeping track but I think we had two dozen wolves on the Refuge winter 2013-2014, lots of blackies. More snow...more elk...more wolves? Less/average snow and recently this side of the Divide I've only seen one at huge distance up on Spread Creek. Although there's not a lot of snow on the refuge their are still elk bunched in just north of the Hospital, so they might be out there. Those blackies stood out. Tey might have been among the ones killed. Wolves will come fairly close, but they seem to leave those elk by the Hospital alone.
As Travis pointed out wolves provide food for other species. From what I can tell lean winters aside they generally feed and move on before everything is consumed. I don't think that's a bad thing, elk are still above objective numbers.
Hyperbole aside wolves kill lots of ungulates. Has the frenzy thing been documented before? Yeah. I think Brad's probably right on with the juvenile male thing, and that of course raises emotion and cultivates bias, however ignorant it may or may not be.
I went to Grays Lake today. Saw Mt. Goats in the canyon both ways. No wolves, but several Coyotes, Northern Harriers, Balds, Goldens, Kingfishers... Thought I saw a Bobcat but just turned out to be an enormous feral kittiemonster.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 19:10:41 GMT -8
Has the frenzy thing been documented before? Yeah. I think Brad's probably right on with the juvenile male thing Yeah, I think Brad was probably right, also. Juvenile male mountain lions also tend to be a little unpredictable. |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Mar 26, 2016 19:14:33 GMT -8
For juveniles that sort of behavior might be "practicing"? Being a predator is a tricky and tough gig: you get it right often enough to eat or you die. And you have to be good enough at it with live prey that YOU don't get hurt; or you die.
Tough room.
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Post by absarokanaut on Mar 27, 2016 5:38:55 GMT -8
Although the only full on charge I've had was from an older boar after sows with cubs juvenile male grizzlies give me the most pause.
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Post by bradmacmt on Mar 27, 2016 7:28:35 GMT -8
AN, yes I have seen a big ram over on the Butte. We go over there to get our truck licked clean  I've heard there's a group of around a dozen wolves on the North end of the reserve. I tend to think the group of elk by the hospital are kept there more by feeding them there, than anything else, given that the biggest group of elk are definitely to the North. If I'm not mistaken, the feeding takes place at 4 different locations to keep the elk separated. It's surprising how little snow is in the valley, in spite of the mountain snow pack being quite good. Aside, here's a pic the biggest bull I saw this year on the reserve... a massive 7x6, certainly around 400 B&C +/-:  |
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