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Post by neneboricua on Mar 15, 2016 11:34:28 GMT -8
Hi everyone,
I'm piecing together items that will let my wife actually enjoy backpacking and not just put up with it for my sake. I've addressed part of this by ordering her a custom EE 10 degree Revelation quilt, which should ship in the next few days. The next item I'd like to invest in would be a warm and lightweight sleeping pad. In this case, I know the old adage is warm/light/cheap, pick 2. So in her case, I pick warm and light. I'll suffer the consequences in my own gear as long as she's comfortable.
As an idea of how cold she sleeps, she's been saying that our bed at home feels too cold to her unless she wears full sweatpants, two pairs of insulated socks, and a hoodie. She also uses 4 blankets. We live in the San Diego area and I have the heat in the room set to 71 degrees F. In my head, I'm thinking how is it possible she's THAT cold? But I accept it and try to help.
So I'm considering a Thermarest XTherm or the Women's XLite. This will mostly be used on 3-season backpacking trips of 2-5 days. The R-values of these two pads are different but what I'm wondering is will someone who sleeps very cold benefit from the higher R-value in mild conditions or does a higher R-value stop to matter after a certain point?
For example, say the night time low was 50 degrees F. Would the XTherm's R-value of 5.7 feel warmer than the Women's XLite R-value of 3.9? By the same token, say I got her the XTherm and we spent a night in temperatures near freezing or maybe even in the upper 20's. Would augmenting the XTherm with a Thermarest Z Lite SOL make a noticeable difference or would it just be needless extra weight?
I'm trying to find the lightest options for her that will make her comfortable in the conditions we'll most likely use it in.
Thanks,
neneboricua
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trinity
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Post by trinity on Mar 15, 2016 11:56:55 GMT -8
In theory, I'm pretty sure that any time ambient temps are lower than 98.6 degrees, the pad with the higher r-value is going to stay warmer. I could well be wrong about this, so I'll be interested to read other replies. And yes, augmenting an inflatable pad with a decent closed cell mat like the z lite should definitely make a noticeable difference. I would definitely go with the x-therm, you pay a very small weight penalty for much better insulation.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Mar 15, 2016 12:22:12 GMT -8
Ready to sleep separately? Individual hammocks can be tailored for warmth. She needs a down under quilt in all circumstances, it appears.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Mar 15, 2016 12:36:03 GMT -8
So long as the earth beneath you is colder than you, you'll lose heat to it. The higher-rated pad will keep your wife warmer and the addition of the closed-cell foam pad will add to the R-rating in those shoulder season/winter temperatures.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 13:37:38 GMT -8
Exped downmat. Not cheap but really warm!
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Post by llamero on Mar 15, 2016 13:58:59 GMT -8
A reflective space blanket offers some benefit to compliment the highest R-value pad you can afford to carry but maybe nice fleece pajamas with feet and a hoodie would be the best accessory.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Mar 15, 2016 14:04:04 GMT -8
At a certain point, you aren't going to see an R-Value benefit. A pad is like your insulation above. It keeps heat in from your own body so although you will have less heat loss, you're not going to get warmer. An R-Value of around 5 is beyond reasonable. How you choose to get there is your choice.
I spent a month in the Arctic on the Ice sheet of Greenland in extremely cold temps using a Thermarest standard pad and a Thermarest XLite pad combo which was overkill and was completely comfortable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2016 15:06:10 GMT -8
When my wife started backpacking she slept cold. I could count on those cold feet seeking me for warmth. So, she'd go to sleep in her 0 degree bag on top of a winter type sleeping pad, wearing heavy weight top and bottoms, exp weight socks, a fleece balclava, and gloves.
She decided she liked backpacking so she started running, going to the gym to lift weights, and joined CrossFit. She still uses the 0 degree bag, has swapped the sleeping pad out for a Neo and sometimes throws her bag and gloves and balclava off, has switched to mid weights, and will sleep with only her bottoms on most of the times. Her fitness level, hydration, and electrolyte upkeep seems to have been the ticket to her being a warmer sleeper. As an FYI kind of thing and your results may vary.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Mar 15, 2016 15:10:01 GMT -8
sometimes throws her bag and gloves and balclava off, has switched to mid weights, and will sleep with only her bottoms on most of the times.  |
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Post by neneboricua on Mar 15, 2016 17:09:13 GMT -8
She decided she liked backpacking so she started running, going to the gym to lift weights, and joined CrossFit. That's what I'm kinda hoping will happen, but it's totally up to her. I'm not pushing it in any way. I ask her if she wants to come with me and some mutual friends on a trip but she doesn't have to. I just wanna have all the right gear so that she has as much fun as possible on the times she does decide to accompany us. In my case, my wife is under 30 and already pretty fit, though she's more of a gym rat. She does weights and bootcamp-style workouts 3-4 days per week and watches her macros like a bodybuilder prepping for a show. But she's a typical city-girl that isn't used to carrying much weight for more than a few minutes at a time. She had bad experiences as a kid car camping with her family so I want her to get into backpacking if/when she chooses. So it seems that most everyone is on the side of higher R-values. So maybe to err on the side of caution, the XTherm might be the best bet and perhaps supplement it with a Z Lite Sol if the XTherm isn't enough... |
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Mar 15, 2016 17:19:01 GMT -8
the XTherm might be the best bet and perhaps supplement it with a Z Lite Sol if the XTherm isn't enough... If the XTherm isn't enough, then it's time to resort to down booties and warm drinks before bed. |
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Mar 15, 2016 17:27:59 GMT -8
To be brutally honest, if she's layering up like that for bed in your home, she may be dealing with circulation issues and you are going to have a tough time with finding her something comfortable for hiking..
Maybe she's constantly dehydrated?
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Mar 15, 2016 21:29:11 GMT -8
The equation for a happy newbie backpacking spouse is...
A pad that is warm and comfortable -- if she has womanly hips, forget the neoairs and head straight to the Big Agnes Q Core -- four inches of cushy mattress, 15F rated (R value 5) with a weight penalty -- I can't have a hammock, I have this or the Exped Synmat.
A Nalgene into which hot water can be decanted, then stuffed in a sock and tossed into the quilt/bag to warm up the down. There is always a period of time that the body takes to warm up down adequately, and if she is cold at home, she will be colder out there. That waiting period can freak people out, convince them they'll be cold all night, and then belief takes root and sticks around. I've learned to do little exercises, just enough to get blood flowing not to sweat, and warm up the down fill faster. Chemical heat packs are less effective but also help.
Proper hydration. It can take a few days to get un-dehydrated. Start a couple days before the trip, stay hydrated -- I drink hot tea within an hour of bedtime. And if I have to pee I get up and do it! No matter how cold it is!!! Because it never fails -- if I am well hydrated, that little bit of exercise works great to warm me right up and when I get back in I am WARM. I tell all newbies this and the ones that take the advice have all told me it works fine.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Mar 16, 2016 7:15:24 GMT -8
Not saying this is a case, but menopause can do all of those things to a woman. Among other things.  For me, though, I'm sleeping colder. Key for me was to make sure I didn't wake up in the middle of the night, because I'd go to sleep fine but feel chilled if I woke up. I don't ever wake up in the middle of the night at home. So, I thought of the little things that would wake me up while backpacking and tried to address those. First was my sleeping bag. I'm sensitive to drafts and cold spots; quilts were definitely out and I swapped out my roomy "women's cut" bag to a slimmer one that fit like a perfect cocoon. When I turn/roll in my sleep, my bag turns/rolls with me. Bonus was that the slimmer cut meant I could get a warmer bag (by 10-degrees) for the same weight. Second was the pad. I tend to like a firm pad but with the tube-baffled air pads, it was like sleeping on a slippery balloon. Didn't help that I tend to "hug" the edge when I'm sleeping; I was just sliding off all the time. If I deflated them, then my hip and shoulder were hitting the ground (side-sleeper.) My favorite pad is the ProLite Plus but they're heavy. I've now settled on a Sea to Summit UL insulated mat. Bumped up the R-value from somewhere in the 2's to the 3's. Third was the pillow. I was underestimating how much the pillow mattered. I now use one that I made; heavier but softer fabric that doesn't slide off the pad. Big enough to actually be comfortable. It has a layer of down for softness, over a pocket where I can stuff my puffy or clothes. Lastly, sleepwear. With the exception of very warm hikes, I take a mid-weight merino baselayer set for sleeping; long pants, long-sleeved top, lightweight footies. All well-fitting, comfortable, minimizes drafts/cold spots. |
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franco
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Post by franco on Mar 16, 2016 16:42:52 GMT -8
Odd that no one suggested a warmer wife.
BTW, not to blow my own trumpet but my wife is the Guinness world record holder for menopause : 27 years , 2 months and 3 days.
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For me, though, I'm sleeping colder. Key for me was to make sure I didn't wake up in the middle of the night, because I'd go to sleep fine but feel chilled if I woke up. I don't ever wake up in the middle of the night at home. So, I thought of the little things that would wake me up while backpacking and tried to address those.