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Post by absarokanaut on Jul 25, 2024 6:36:03 GMT -8
I was just involved in a heated discussion and at the risk of being accused of proselytizing I think that perhaps some of you might benefit from what I have to say here. Not many folks realize the Absaroka Range has a shorter section of the Continental Divide just East of Jackson Hole North of Togwotee Pass. Here Smokey surveys the Cub Creek drainage from the Divide Crest. In 2012 on this same hiking route on a solo hike I was charged by a large boar grizzly on a Forest Service Trail about 1,800 vertical feet below this point. I was lucky to heed the advice of other folks to only holster my spray on my hip, not anywhere on my pack or on my chest close to my face because everything happened so fast I had to spray while the canister was still in my holster. The bear ground his face into the dirt and did a 180 and ran away quite fast after rolling up just under 6' in front of me. A little over two years later responders dug a young forest inventory contractor out of 3 different holes in the vicinity of Smokey's gaze, just a few miles from where I almost pooped my pants. As traumatic as that was for me that is the only time I've had to use my spray hiking thousands of solo miles in dense grizzly habitat. We'll never know whether or not he was killed by a black or grizzly bear since multiple tracks were found from both species. I know that some of you ultralighters likely have a different view on this and although like any firearm bearspray is not a 100% guarantee, particularly with a sow with cubs, I highly recommend spray for almost all activities in bear country. Like everything we should have in our packs and on our person it is far better to have something and not need it than not have it and need it. You have to play your own odds and this post should not scare any of us since the most dangerous part of almost every hike is almost always driving to the Trailhead. There are other things some of us don't feel the need to take on our hikes wherever they may be. I've already said a mouthful so in addition to any discussion of Bear Spray is there anything else any of us wants to add here?  |
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jul 25, 2024 7:20:28 GMT -8
Bear spray seems key in grizzly country, though I’ve done some hiking in such places and not carried it (thinking in retrospect that might not be the smartest thing I’ve ever done).
As for other things… a friend has me mostly carrying a full FAK even on walk in the park kinds of dayhikes, after she had to improvise to help someone she met with a sprained or broken ankle. So I now keep the kit in my daypack, and any hike that needs a pack gets an FAK, with tape and ace bandage (after breaking my foot on a hike without any of that along II realized I’d been careless—had just come off a backpack and didn’t transfer the kit).
For the most part, though, I think most hikers are carrying way too much of everything. Just came off the WEst Coast Trail with Jazzmom, and we had far the smallest packs (hers especially). I’m pretty sure some of those folks were carrying as much as both of us put together. That can’t be good on a trail like that (I guess I’d better do a trip report to show you why).
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Travis
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Post by Travis on Jul 25, 2024 8:29:49 GMT -8
I agree with carrying bear spray in bear country, especially in grizzly country or camping in black bear country. Bear spray is also considered effective against mountain lions. I do not carry bear spray in mountain-lion country, but neither do I trail run or bike in mountain-lion country. I do think there are enough examples of people being attacked or chased by mountain lions while those people were trail running or mountain biking. So I believe that those people who insist upon doing that would do well to be prepared by carrying bear spray on those occasions also. I find it quite annoying to hear of someone claiming the person "did everything right" in attempting to repel an attack when they were moving at a high rate of speed, running or biking, and not carrying bear spray. Those people, in effect, instigated the attack that they were not prepared to repel.
There are other things some of us don't feel the need to take on our hikes wherever they may be. I've already said a mouthful so in addition to any discussion of Bear Spray is there anything else any of us wants to add here? As I expressed in another thread, I do not consider fire to be a legitimate "essential" in the dry, fire-prone wildlands of the West.
And could someone please explain how it is that people recommend high-tech items like GPS, cell phones, Spot signalling devices etc. and then revert to recommending low-tech "matches" as fire starters? Two small Bic lighters are far more dependable sources of fire, and less likely to be lost, than matches. Just imagine an unused match falling into dry tender under the hot sun and explain to me how those matches ever belonged in the backcountry to begin with.
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Post by hikerjer on Jul 25, 2024 9:31:33 GMT -8
No argument from me.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jul 25, 2024 12:00:44 GMT -8
I've been trying to figure out how to carry bear spray. I was leaning toward a shoulder strap holster because I thought it would be quicker to draw out from where I can see it better. The flip side is something I hope I don't have to use is in my field of view full time. absarokanaut from what you said having it on the hip pointing forward is a plus. Now I'm thinking on the belt is better Although there are no grizzlies here in the NE there seems to be a growing population of black bears and unfortunately some are human acclimated. I'm thinking it is just a matter of time until I run into one in a bad way. Maybe not the greatest thing but bear spray could be useful against bad humans or dogs. |
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Post by marmotstew on Jul 25, 2024 12:28:27 GMT -8
All of this offends me on so many levels. But anyone who brings a DOT explosive hazardous material into wilderness is a madman and should be jailed.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jul 25, 2024 12:34:14 GMT -8
Take the Bear spray, leave the cannoli (out of the tent)…just a little comic relief
You have already had an event and if you are like me that never fully disappears from your psyche. When that 1500 lb grizzly walked up to me, well I guess it might have been more a 250 to 300 lb black, it was so close I could smell its breath and could have reached out and touched it but I was afraid I’d draw back a nub. It freaked me out because it was on two legs and just ambled up in the penumbral darkness like we were old buds. We drove it back with rocks and lots of screaming like eight year old girls might do. That was 49 years ago and it seems like yesterday. Bears that don’t skedaddle still worry me but since then they all do. I wouldn’t worry about what anyone else might think, just do what you want. They always say driving is far more dangerous and they are right but people are mauled for life in hideous ways and some do get eaten. I remember one article where a bear came up on a couple and the guy got into a tree. It got the woman and she yelled “it got my arm off…and then she screamed it has killed me. He survived and had to live with his actions for the rest of his life.
I know it doesn’t happen often but I would at the least take the spray in grizzly country and keep it handy. Sure there are other dangers to think about and always stay aware. We have black bears that occasionally show up down off the mountains and into the desert canyons, it’s also lion country and today we ran into a tiger, tiger rattlesnake that is. You only see that species in certain areas of Arizona and northern Sonora, no where else. I love it. Naysayers can hike their own hike cause that’s what I do and suggest everyone do.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jul 25, 2024 14:08:44 GMT -8
They always say driving is far more dangerous Are seat belts to cars like bear spray to hiking in bear country? |
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jul 25, 2024 14:13:52 GMT -8
They always say driving is far more dangerous Are seat belts to cars like bear spray to hiking in bear country? id say that’s a good analogy |
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bcpete
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Post by bcpete on Jul 25, 2024 18:54:13 GMT -8
They always say driving is far more dangerous ... YES (in grizzly country, and where ever black bears are habituated to people). |
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jul 26, 2024 5:00:11 GMT -8
Insect repellent…that’s something that should probably be in every pack. Mosquitoes and ticks are ultimately more dangerous than any other animal in the backcountry including lions, tigers and bears.
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Post by Coolkat on Jul 26, 2024 6:18:53 GMT -8
I've never been in grizzly country but that makes perfect sense to me. We have black bear here but its not something I really think about. I've seen lots of scat and tracks but never a bear. ticks are ultimately more dangerous than any other animal in the backcountry including lions, tigers and bears. I'll say amen to that as someone who did a round or two with lymes disease and didnt think I'd make it through. |
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Jul 26, 2024 8:27:59 GMT -8
Insect repellent…that’s something that should probably be in every pack. Mosquitoes and ticks are ultimately more dangerous than any other animal in the backcountry including lions, tigers and bears. That reminds me. I have to redo the Permethrin on my hiking clothes. |
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Post by Westy on Jul 26, 2024 8:28:57 GMT -8
A hiking friend of mine was mauled in 2020. He was circumambulating the 800-mile Yellowstone Ecosystem and was attacked on an off-trail pass in the Absaroka's. Apparently, he inadvertently disturbed a bear in a day bed. In 2021 I had c. 300 miles left to complete the CDT - Helena to East Glacier through the Bob. I was a bit unsettled and wanted more info. I decided to educate myself and validate a vetted source. I am somewhat allergic to topical U-tube channel influencers, particularly regarding bears. So, this boomer hit the phones! Struck gold with Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks. After several phone calls they assessed that I was serious about deep diving the subject. They gave me a link to this outstanding introduction to Bear Awareness Training from the Montana Bear Education Group. It covers bear natural history, biology, attractant storage, preventing encounters, bear spray, and how to handle bear encounters. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrFsJguXYIk |
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jul 26, 2024 11:27:35 GMT -8
I've never been in grizzly country but that makes perfect sense to me. We have black bear here but its not something I really think about. I've seen lots of scat and tracks but never a bear. ticks are ultimately more dangerous than any other animal in the backcountry including lions, tigers and bears. I'll say amen to that as someone who did a round or two with lymes disease and didnt think I'd make it through. So good you made it through such an ordeal. I’ve known people personally, online and in the literature who have suffered very serious consequences from the disease. Ticks don’t usually do well in the desert but they do exist in the higher terrain. We do have mosquitoes that transmit at least three kinds of serious diseases here so we do keep the insect repellent close. |
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