BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Feb 16, 2023 10:08:01 GMT -8
I have a great deal of respect for the havoc that an ice axe could wreck. I have a simple rule of thumb: if I need to bring an ice axe, I probably shouldn't go.
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Post by cweston on Feb 16, 2023 10:26:04 GMT -8
I have a simple rule of thumb: if I need to bring an ice axe, I probably shouldn't go. Yeah, it's a bit of an internal struggle. Yours is a very sensible policy that I will undoubtedly eventually come around to. OTOH, some of the most spectacular places I've visited in the mountains were places I would not have been able to safely travel to/from without axe and/or traction devices. I definitely see folks out there solving this by just eschewing the axe/traction and hiking those routes anyway. HYOH and all, but I'm not a fan of that solution. (Also, get off my lawn...)
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Post by Sleeping Bag Man! on Feb 16, 2023 10:42:36 GMT -8
In mountaineering school, they called ice-axes “Sucking Chest Wound Tools”
And they made us practice self-arrest over & over & over, always hitting the snow UPHILL from your shoulder & chest.
…but I still never had 100% confidence that I wouldn’t panic in a real fall & turn my insides into outsides
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Feb 16, 2023 20:11:52 GMT -8
I have a simple rule of thumb: if I need to bring an ice axe, I probably shouldn't go. Actually the reason I have carried an ice axe is that, at least back 30 years ago, the area around Mt Washington would require campers to carry them in the winter sometimes. I don't think they expect them to be used for arrest. The dangerous thing is ice particularly the rime ice on summits. If you fell you would pick up speed very quickly and likely bounce hard off a rock faster than you could get to an arrest. I don't even know if the axe could get purchase. Rime ice can be pretty dense. Maybe your could get your head up so you legs not your brain take the hit. I think in that situation it is to be able to cut steps in the ice. I once turned around after getting to a rime ice covered summit in the Adirondacks and heard a loud snap. One of the instep links of my crampons snapped and it was useless. A combination of stepping on rocks with the boot foot and my partner cutting some steps by using his crampons I got down to where there was snow to snowshoe on. I kind of wish I had an ice axe then. I did have poles.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Feb 16, 2023 20:29:59 GMT -8
OTOH, some of the most spectacular places I've visited in the mountains were places I would not have been able to safely travel to/from without axe and/or traction devices. Yes, that's a hard thing to forego. I don't mind using some traction devices, although true crampons give me visions of an arterial gash from the knee to the ankle.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Feb 17, 2023 5:58:47 GMT -8
Last winter I went on a local overnight in order to test the lower temp limit of my hammock system. The forecast was for 13F overnight but the day I was going in it was 38F. It did get that cold and the system kept me nice and warm. There was about 4-6 inches of wet snow that was easy to bare boot in. I did have my good instep crampons with me and was thinking I will really need these tomorrow when all this freezes. The next morning moving around my campsite I could if I was careful. I could still punch through the ice to the corn snow. So I decided to forego my crampons and see how it goes. As I started through a north facing section the ice started getting harder. I was thinking I should stop and put my crampons on as I pasted near a tree. The ice behind it was hard and slick. I went down hard. Luckily the only real damage was smashing my forearm on the tree. Hard enough that through my clothes it left a serious raspberry that eventually developed into a very serious bruise. I slowly assessed my condition on the ground then carefully got up and went to a good seat a few feet away and put on my crampons and made a cup of coffee.
Once my crampons were on it was such easy walking. They grabbed perfectly in the ice/snow. It was like walking on a smooth paved path of white.
If you are wondering why did I hesitate in putting them on mostly it was because under some conditions they increase the chance of blisters, they can cut/wear on your boot and sometimes the instep crampons can be uncomfortable on your feet since they put the weight on the middle of the foot.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Feb 17, 2023 8:22:01 GMT -8
I used to carry an ice axe all the time, 30+ years ago in Washington. We all did, and used them occasionally to cross snowfields. It was seldom strapped on the pack, but carried as a rather short walking stick.
Now, I’m more of BL’s view, that if I need one, I probably don’t belong there. But I also have options now that would have done the job 99% of the time back then—poles and microspikes. I don’t anticipate bagging any more glacier—covered volcanoes. (There is also, sadly, much less summer snow in the Cascades. If you are even in doubt abouut climate change, revisit mountains you hiked 30 years ago).
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Post by cweston on Feb 17, 2023 9:25:48 GMT -8
If you are even in doubt abouut climate change, revisit mountains you hiked 30 years ago). So true. The last time I visited the North Cascades (in the vicinity of Whatcom Pass), it was a low-snow year, so I knew it would be weird. But the lack of snow was pretty appalling. Still lots of glaciers in that area, though, at least for now.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 17, 2023 9:57:54 GMT -8
The traction device choices have certainly ballooned greatly: lots of choices now for hiking crampon options.
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