ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Aug 28, 2022 14:38:52 GMT -8
I’d expect the risk of bursting would be most critical during refilling when a flawed can got tested by the increasing pressure. Due to expanding gas cooling the can during use a burst while cooking would, imho, actually be less than otherwise. Unless someone unwisely was using a full windscreen contrary to manufacturers safety instructions. Of course having a volume of flammable gas get released in your home isn’t a good thing either. But at least the “giant fireball consuming your pricey tent and sleeping bag” isn’t very likely. Refilling is one time I worry about bursting especially if I am rushing and overfill by accident. I either bleed it off or transfer back to get down to the correct full weight before I take it.
But there are two other times to worry about failure. One if if the canister is getting heated in your pack. Depending on where you store it in your pack they could get pretty warm. More warm equals more pressure.
The other most critical time would be if you use a wind screen. If not done properly this could significantly heat the canister.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 28, 2022 14:45:30 GMT -8
Vehicle overheating during transit is a worry if mine for sure: even factory fresh cans. Parked quite a few times in Bishop CA and other Owens Valley locations and it was just not possible to find shade every time. Air temps over a hundred to start… it’s the one time I forego the extra sense of security and leave my windows slightly down, having read that venting can greatly help in reducing the interior temperature. But still… (hopefully with no source of ignition it’d be an inconvenience not a catastrophe)!
Yes, a windscreen is totally hazardous. Even the seemingly benign circle of rocks…
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Aug 28, 2022 14:56:00 GMT -8
A large pot can also do what a windscreen can do when using a sit-on-top stove, reflect too much heat back at the canister. I feel more confident with a remote stove. A Svea 123 ruptured and turned flame thrower decades ago, a thing I could never forget. They could do that with a wide pot at times and one of our local outdoor shops had over a dozen Svea 123s with welded tanks for sale as refurbished.
By law all gas cylinders like for aviation oxygen must be hydrostatic tested regularly and taken out of circulation if they have too much rust or other flaws so they don’t explode or turn into a projectile.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 28, 2022 15:11:23 GMT -8
That wide pot is an important safety reminder: I could easily see someone at a trailhead campsite deciding to start their trip with a “real” breakfast in frying up some eggs or pancakes or bacon in a nice big fry pan they’d never backpack with: but hey, it’s just for car camping and their backpacking stove will heat it fine.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Sept 1, 2022 7:19:40 GMT -8
I hate the one-pound propane canisters but for small car camping, a full-sized refillable canister is problematic. I only go through about 2-3 a year. I have a adapter, check valve rig, and hose I have used. I have not been above putting a .22 slug in a depleted greenie on its way to the steel pile at the landfill. At a distance in a bare ditch. I worked too many years around hazardous and flammable gases to trust refill of any non-DOT approved vessel.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Sept 1, 2022 7:48:29 GMT -8
I am not fully understanding this. Won't a nice chunk of metal be very recyclable? Is that it they need special handling the issue? Do the parks have bins for general recycling or is all garbage handled as co-mingled? If co-mingled and later sorted couldn't the cans just be pulled into their own recycle stream? I think they are magnetic so fairly easy to extract. If there are bins could there be a bin for pressurized cans? I could include things like bug spray cans too then.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 1, 2022 8:06:55 GMT -8
I am not fully understanding this. Won't a nice chunk of metal be very recyclable? Is that it they need special handling the issue? Do the parks have bins for general recycling or is all garbage handled as co-mingled? If co-mingled and later sorted couldn't the cans just be pulled into their own recycle stream? I think they are magnetic so fairly easy to extract. If there are bins could there be a bin for pressurized cans? I could include things like bug spray cans too then. They’re filled with an explosive gas. That makes them hazardous waste which requires specialized and expensive handling for safety. And they’re noted to be routinely dumped in regular trash which endangers everyone handling that trash. California says 4-7 million of them a year…. Requiring refillables has logic. sd10.senate.ca.gov/news/2022-08-15-california-assembly-approves-wieckowski-bill-phase-out-1-pound-single-use-propane
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Sept 1, 2022 8:13:29 GMT -8
a full-sized refillable canister is problematic. I only go through about 2-3 a year. That's about my usage rate, too. My beef on those is that I've never gotten more than two refills before having to relinquish the canister. On average, I spend as much on replacing the container as I do on the fuel itself.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Sept 1, 2022 8:25:54 GMT -8
BigLoad The next time someone says your full sized canister needs to be replaced, trade it in at one of those locations that swap out tanks, like Walgreen's or Lowe's. They don't care who's tank it is, and the full tank then costs about $20.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Sept 1, 2022 9:16:35 GMT -8
A quick Google and I found: propanebottlerecycler.org Interesting idea to use the recovered propane to power the system.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Sept 1, 2022 9:33:49 GMT -8
I’ve seen similar labeled propane cylinder disposal bins at New York State parks. Far superior to Yosemite’s rather informal tradition of just sitting the canisters on the flat top of the trash bin cover.
It doesn’t mitigate the expense of handling hazardous waste but it maybe lessens having to treat the entire trash stream as hazardous. Which would cost several fortunes.
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Sept 1, 2022 13:00:34 GMT -8
I don't think there is anywhere in the metro NYC area that refills 20# cans. It's all swap. I think every can has an initial $20 deposit. I bought into swapping so long ago I am not sure how much it is now. The deposit just keeps carrying over.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Sept 1, 2022 15:34:55 GMT -8
I don't think there is anywhere in the metro NYC area that refills 20# cans. It's all swap. I think every can has an initial $20 deposit. I bought into swapping so long ago I am not sure how much it is now. The deposit just keeps carrying over. I think those are less common in NJ because there are so many propane distributors that serve the home heating industry in areas where the main options are oil or propane due to the lack of natural gas infrastructure.
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