zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 25, 2022 5:25:12 GMT -8
It appears Yosemite is going to stop selling the single use propane canisters, and by the headline, California may ban them altogether. link I found another article that I could access link that explained it is the 1 pound propane bottles, mostly the green bottles, that is being targeted. Not any Iso-pro canisters favored by bp'ers. I can get behind this as long as the alternatives are widely available in those places that no longer allow the green cans. Refillable, possibly larger, canisters is definitely the way to go. Reducing the waste produced by campers in the parks would go a long way towards making it nicer to be there.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Aug 25, 2022 11:45:34 GMT -8
I agree that what we need is a better way to carry fuel (since wood is pretty much out of the question now): Maybe the industry needs to address this by coming up with smaller, refillable canisters actually designed for reuse, but I’ve grown used to the idea that that kind of thing is probably not going to happen.
I guess now would be the time to start buying those LPG to Lindal valve thingamabobs if you don’t already have them. I’ve watched a lot of comparisons between burning propane and Isopro, and refilling containers myself still makes me a little nervous. But, whatever…
It occurs to me that I still have a whole case of Coleman Powermax canisters. I also have converter stuff for using them. Just talking about this stuff makes me feel like I’m so out of touch.
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Post by drilldaddyo on Aug 25, 2022 15:04:19 GMT -8
I have the one lb. Flame King canister and the refill kit for it. Unfortunately, the last time I checked there are no commercial facilities that will refill the one pound canisters. This may have changed and I hope it does.
I've seen a few videos of people who refill the green Coleman canisters which is not recommended by the manufacturer.
Randy
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 25, 2022 18:07:52 GMT -8
The steel propane canisters may be the tougher ones to recycle versus the aluminum isopropane ones? The other barrier is likely I’d think in either case there’s a hazardous waste component since they’re flammable compressed gas containers and there’s zero way for the handler to know how many still have gas in them. Hey for Yosemite car camping anyway we’ll soon all be able to just plug in our electric stove to our vehicle right? 😊😊😊 “Two years ago, Yosemite stopped selling single-use propane canisters and began exclusively selling refillable ones from Manteca company Little Kamper.” So they’ve had a solution in place for a while. campingyourway.net/yosemite-stops-selling-single-use-camping-stove-propane-cans/The manufacturer: littlekamper.com/
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Aug 26, 2022 5:36:57 GMT -8
The steel propane canisters may be the tougher ones to recycle versus the aluminum isopropane ones? All of the isobutane/propane canisters I have are 100% steel, MSR, Snow Peak and Olicamp. However they are far thinner stock than the green Coleman style propane canisters. It’s easy to puncture the isopro canisters as we know here but they tell you on the canister not to puncture the green propane canisters for some reason so maybe that kind of makes it an issue for recycling.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 26, 2022 6:06:37 GMT -8
I puncture my used green ones and then flatten them with a hammer. Any recycling location can then accept them as they are obviously emptied and are just scrap steel.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 26, 2022 7:05:42 GMT -8
Ha. The old Bluet’s were, iirc, aluminum (and they also were pure butane, a likely critical difference re internal pressure) . Didn’t think to do a magnet test.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Aug 26, 2022 7:25:54 GMT -8
I puncture my used green ones and then flatten them with a hammer. Any recycling location can then accept them as they are obviously emptied and are just scrap steel. Easy to believe because I still puncture them too though I don’t flatten. My point is the information on the canister says; ”Never put in fire or incinerator, Do not puncture.” so they don’t make it easy for the common user to recycle like those many filled bins of empties you linked. But at least you and I are. Ha. The old Bluet’s were, iirc, aluminum (and they also were pure butane, a likely critical difference re internal pressure) . Didn’t think to do a magnet test. I wondered if some of the older canisters were different but didn’t start using LPG until 20 years ago when I broke down and got a Snow Peak Gigapower. Before that it was a white gas Whisperlite and the like. I never did like white gas fuel much.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Aug 26, 2022 8:01:41 GMT -8
I puncture my used green ones and then flatten them with a hammer. Any recycling location can then accept them as they are obviously emptied and are just scrap steel. The typical “iso” canisters are indeed recyclable and there’s even a tool to safely puncture them (JetBoil sells one). Then there’s the residue but figure it’s not organic if talking about steel and/or aluminum recycling. Not saying anything about the gasses if that’s a concern (more “environmental” sub-forum), but interestingly many hikers go with cold soaking just to avoid the hassle of trying to find canisters, then getting gouged on pricing in smaller “clutch” areas (just passed Cascade Locks on the PCT and canisters were being sold for $13 to $15 apiece). Cold flavored mashed potatoes (pretty calorie filled) are about as good cold as they are warm.. It appears Yosemite is going to stop selling the single use propane canisters, and by the headline, California may ban them altogether … explained it is the 1 pound propane bottles, mostly the green bottles, that is being targeted. Not any Iso-pro canisters favored by bp'ers. I can get behind this as long as the alternatives are widely available in those places that no longer allow the green cans. Refillable, possibly larger, canisters is definitely the way to go. Reducing the waste produced by campers in the parks would go a long way towards making it nicer to be there. Probably but hope they leave the iso cans used by backpackers alone or even add separate recycling stations at trailheads along with aforementioned tool. One potential problem with banning them outright for true backcountry users is sometimes a hot meal is needed plus it invites those who’ll challenge with an open flame heat source (esbit, alcohol, etc..) creating more fire hazards.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 26, 2022 8:29:53 GMT -8
Yosemite stopping selling single use propane 1 lb canisters and replacing them with refillable 1 lb canisters back two years ago won’t result in any backpacker impact that I can see.
They’re targeting a front country waste stream issue much like single use bottled water sales. And hazardous waste is very expensive to dispose of unlike a plastic water bottle…
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Aug 26, 2022 8:45:50 GMT -8
The old Bluet’s [sic: "Bleuet"] were, iirc, aluminum Yeah, as were the beautifully engineered Coleman Powermax canisters. The problem, of course, is that neither are "refillable". So they’ve had a solution in place for a while. If you look at the map on the Little Kamper site (you cited), you'll see that there are very few retailers outside of the west coast. :^(
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Aug 26, 2022 11:22:40 GMT -8
Well Yosemite has the solution for their ban on the sale of 1 lb single use canisters was my thought.
Though for fly ins the “empties” will still be tossed. I suppose one way to restrain that would be a significant deposit. I wonder if that’s part of it?
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 26, 2022 19:56:50 GMT -8
I have a device and do refill green 1lb propane canisters. But the threads aren’t up for all that many connections and disconnects, so I’ve only tended to refill once or twice. I fill from my 20lb bottle for the grill. Zeke has tipped me off to 5lb refillable bottles, which might be small enough for my car-camping. Honestly, on a week-long family trip back in the day we might go through 2-3 of the green bottles, so the larger one seems reasonable to me (though now I travel alone more often and don’t need as much fuel. I’d actually really like a refillable (by me) 2lb bottle.
It occurs to me that one reason they don’t recommend doing what I do is that the bottles have no means of preventing over-fill, which is dangerous and I think may cause spillage? That was why they banned all the old random tanks that used to be out there, so that they would all have the proper fill mechanism. Too bad. We used to have a maybe 4lb sausage-shaped tank when I was a kid. It sat perfectly in the footwell of the sliding door on our van.
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Post by bobcat1 on Aug 26, 2022 20:08:12 GMT -8
I went on an outfitted and guided group kayak trip to the Apostle Islands, and we carried the 5-# refillable propane cylinders and 2-burner stoves in our huge double kayaks. Definitely possible for car camping. But not a solution for backpackers, cyclists or most self-propelled canoeists or kayakers.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 27, 2022 4:08:16 GMT -8
I could easily carry a 5# tank upright and the new 2 burner foldable stove in my sea kayak, and may do so for a better cooking experience. Hot, fresh cooked meals might be welcomed a few of the nights.
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