zeke
Trail Wise!
Peekaboo slot 2023
Posts: 9,869
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Post by zeke on Aug 28, 2022 4:13:57 GMT -8
without the support I believe high top boots give me. I read a long time ago that it was a myth that boots provide ankle support. This is one of the recent articles I could find. Dry boots weigh more, and wet boots weigh even more. Plus wet boots take longer to dry. Nope. I'll stick with a good low quarter with a rugged sole. Currently, that means Oboz Sawtooth.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Aug 28, 2022 5:34:44 GMT -8
Was reading a blurb on Outside magazine about a thru hiker whose favorite “gear” is a 3.6 oz (new) tube of shoe goo; applying it to holes as they pop up, he extend the life of trail runners to 1000 miles. Some people can get away with that, but many cannot. By the time goo is necessary, the cushioning is shot and there's generally some deformation of the midsole. That can lead to knee and hip problems in a lot of people. Some poorer thru hikers on the PCT have been known to grab used Altras other hikers donated to the hiker box (i.e. trash) and get 300 to 400 hundred more miles out of them. Seems to me that hiker weight and perhaps gait have something to do with it. How much load is being put on the midsole material? Of course these were southbound PCT thru hikers, so they had to be carrying lots of water or making big enough miles to hit water sources faster. Maybe a little psychological desperation. Lighter pack allows for lighter shoe? I do some day hiking in walking shoe, even quite rocky narrow. Poles for balance if needed (weak ankle) I do think some of it comes down to individual preferences, gait, and stability of the ankles. Also the season as colder weather has me reaching for higher ankle material.
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Post by peakbagger on Aug 28, 2022 5:56:56 GMT -8
zeke I've read conflicting information in the past. The link you provided is to CleverHiker, which I enjoy reading, but only to see another's experiences. I do not take their articles as absolute fact. A matter of fact, a quick search from CleverHiker brings up another article discussing which boots give the most ankle support. Here's a link to an article from the journal of Foot and Ankle research that says no consensus has been reached. They provide secondary research that states high-tops DO make a difference, then secondary research that says they DON'T make a difference. LinkMy personal "feel" is a boot with a high collar and tongue built from rigid material give me more confidence. I can say that when wearing such boots I've never had an injury of more than the walk-off in 5-minute variety. On the other hand I've hit what were supposed to be simple trails in tennis shoes and/or low cut boots and had ankle injuries that nagged me for weeks. In the past several years it has been all high-tops with no significant injury, though I had some scares. For me I don't see a path to giving up the high tops. rebeccad Are support poles and hiking poles the same thing? If so, then yes I use these and agree they do a great deal to help protect my ankles.
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Post by trinity on Aug 28, 2022 5:59:33 GMT -8
It seems to me that throughhikers have different needs than most backpackers, as far as footwear goes. I saw a number of CDT hikers in the Winds, you could spot them from a mile off. They were carrying (mostly) HMG packs with very light loads, and moving at a very fast clip. They were probably putting in 20-30 mile days. For this approach to hiking, trailrunners make a lot of sense. For a plodding old guy like me with a heavier pack, a more supportive shoe makes some sense. For me, the Merrell Moab hits that sweet spot.
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rebeccad
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Writing like a maniac
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 28, 2022 7:20:13 GMT -8
peakbagger, my parts of speech weren’t clear. My sentence meant that the support I get from my hiking poles is the key trinity, I also wear the Moab, which seems to strike a sweet spot . For me that starts with fitting more or less (nothing really fits) and continues with a stiffish sole to protect the parts of my foot with issues. I’d probably wear a trail runner if not for the need for that extra sole. Whatever I get, I wear them out fast.
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Post by cweston on Aug 28, 2022 7:26:37 GMT -8
I wear Merrell Moab lows for 90% of my day-hiking and hike-adjacent dog walking around home. (Even daily dog walks around here can include woods, rocky lake shore, etc.) They're certainly not as light as trail runners, but are much more supportive and rugged.
The other 10%, when snow is on the ground or when it's cool and wet, I wear my Salomon Quest 4 GTX boots (which are also my go-to for mountain hiking/BPing).
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zeke
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Peekaboo slot 2023
Posts: 9,869
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Post by zeke on Aug 28, 2022 7:30:00 GMT -8
peakbagger OK, if that link didn't help, because it was 1 blogger's opinion, how about a medical journal reporting on trials that had a total of 8000 participants? linkIn the end, it is always Hike Your Own Hike. Do what works for you, but the boots aren't actually doing anything for you unless they are stiff orthotics.
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Post by cweston on Aug 28, 2022 7:38:59 GMT -8
I *feel* more supported/confident in boots, but I also acknowledge that that may be at least partially a placebo affect with respect to ankle support.
But one difference I know is real: In low shoes, I tend to get painful bruises on my ankles in rocky terrain, if my foot rolls or slips, or the rocks move, and I bang my unprotected ankle bones against rocks. Boots do offer at least a little padding to protect against this.
Of course it's HYOH, ultimately.
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Post by Coolkat on Aug 29, 2022 4:14:21 GMT -8
how about a medical journal reporting on trials that had a total of 8000 participants? link zeke, I appreciate you taking the time to dig that up. There is data to back this up. Thanks! I tend to get painful bruises on my ankles in rocky terrain, if my foot rolls or slips, or the rocks move, and I bang my unprotected ankle bones against rocks. Boots do offer at least a little padding to protect against this. cweston, if I remember correctly a lot (or maybe most) of your hiking is off trail. Which I believe probably has a legitimate reason for boots. Which makes me think that I'm not sure what I would do if I started doing the kind of hikes you do because every boot I've ever owned has given me blisters.
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Post by oldbill on Aug 29, 2022 4:35:18 GMT -8
For a plodding old guy like me with a heavier pack, a more supportive shoe makes some sense In low shoes, I tend to get painful bruises on my ankles in rocky terrain, if my foot rolls or slips, or the rocks move, and I bang my unprotected ankle bones against rocks. Boots do offer at least a little padding to protect against this. +1 to both! I want underfoot support and moderate cushion and protection from my ankles. And mid-height boots absolutely DO help mitigate ankle rolls in my experience. No substitute for lower leg strengthening but a valuable component to safety. My feet are extremely difficult to fit comfortably, especially in a boot. But I want protection, especially off trail and even on-trail for the more challenging trails.
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Post by bobcat1 on Aug 29, 2022 13:54:45 GMT -8
I don’t have the references to back this up, but this is the scoop on high-tops vs low-tops for athletic shoes and ankle sprains: the high top allows a sensory feedback to your brain about where your foot is in space. With the high tops, the pressure on your ankle tells your brain that it needs to straighten your foot so you land square rather than roll it. The high-top shoe does not act like a splint or brace. The neurological feedback loop is part of what’s called “proprioception”. So, it is true that the boots can help with ankle stability, just more complex process than you might think.
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zeke
Trail Wise!
Peekaboo slot 2023
Posts: 9,869
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Post by zeke on Aug 29, 2022 15:44:56 GMT -8
Bunk
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Post by trinity on Aug 29, 2022 16:46:47 GMT -8
I don’t have the references to back this up, but this is the scoop on high-tops vs low-tops for athletic shoes and ankle sprains: the high top allows a sensory feedback to your brain about where your foot is in space. With the high tops, the pressure on your ankle tells your brain that it needs to straighten your foot so you land square rather than roll it. The high-top shoe does not act like a splint or brace. The neurological feedback loop is part of what’s called “proprioception”. So, it is true that the boots can help with ankle stability, just more complex process than you might think. Interesting, I've never heard this suggestion. Makes some sense to me, and in a way goes along with cweston 's perceptions.
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Post by oldbill on Aug 30, 2022 3:16:41 GMT -8
The high-top shoe does not act like a splint or brace. Not sure I agree with that. Properly laced and locked in, I have found a sudden inversion to be mitigated by the boot top. It prevents a worse inversion because the fold in the upper materials stops it. It does not "prevent" ankle sprains. It lessens the chance and severity. Of course, if the upper material is thin (like Ultra-raptor mids) even that benefit is eliminated.
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FamilySherpa
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Tangled up in Rhododendron
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Post by FamilySherpa on Sept 6, 2022 4:41:07 GMT -8
Speaking of footwear.... After ~18 years of trail running, i've just recently started having foot pain. Went to the podiatrist late last week and she identified a few hammer toes, a bunion developing, and probably some arthritis in my metatarsal areas. I was told to stop road running until further notice, and if I wanted to continue trail running, I was going to need to re-align my toes with braces & spacers, and that I should immediately switch to a wide toe box zero drop shoe.
I've tried Altra's in the past and didnt care for them, but might have to just learn to like them. Are there any other companies out there that have a decent selection of zero drop trail shoes?
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