|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 8, 2022 16:37:10 GMT -8
|
|
zeke
Trail Wise!
Peekaboo slot 2023
Posts: 9,876
|
Post by zeke on Jan 8, 2022 18:03:09 GMT -8
In colder weather, that might allow for the canister to be inverted.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 8, 2022 18:25:04 GMT -8
|
|
gabby
Trail Wise!
Posts: 4,536
Member is Online
|
Post by gabby on Jan 8, 2022 20:02:55 GMT -8
Yeah, I bought a couple of the "lots more clunky" devices similar to this from China about 12-15 years ago or so. IMHO, they added a bit too much weight. The MSR version doesn't, on casual review, seem to be all that much different from those I bought long ago, given that it's made out of stainless steel and weighs some 6 ounces (the ones I bought were closer to 7 oz), which would mean you'd pretty much triple the carry weight of your canister-top stove, though gaining stability over the original canister top application. Now, if some enterprising maker of titanium objects d' bp (Vargo?) would step up and reproduce this or the one I bought from Hong Kong (now on Amazon - see below) in titanium ... www.amazon.com/Adapter-Outdoor-Camping-Converter-Replacement/dp/B07QX9P485Not to make too much of this, since I myself have started using much heavier stoves lately, testing the latest offerings from China. China is doing some interesting stuff, though they have hardly surpassed the designs of the major American manufacturers - yet. The Bulin 3800w and pot (pictured below) are far too heavy, but it's a killer combo for stability, reduced wind sensitivity and quick boil times. And it's cheap!
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 8, 2022 20:17:57 GMT -8
gabby Any thoughts on the PR burner head re inverted use?
|
|
gabby
Trail Wise!
Posts: 4,536
Member is Online
|
Post by gabby on Jan 8, 2022 22:27:24 GMT -8
gabby Any thoughts on the PR burner head re inverted use? I saw your question whilst sitting in bed (preparing to sleep) about an hour ago, but my increasingly complicated, and also dictated, answer was inadvertently deleted by my iPhone. So it goes ... So here I am logged onto my PC again. This discussion has been had around here a number of times, but I suspect it's still not clear to a lot of people why some burner heads are candidates for inverted canister use and others are not. Just to cut to the chase on your question: No, I don't think, at least IME, that the PR (MSR Pocket Rocket) is one of those which is usable with an inverted canister. I only have direct experience with the older PR, but the newer versions also don't seem to have any means to turn LIQUID fuel into a GAS, which is a requirement to burn isobutane from an inverted canister, which dispenses the fuel within in LIQUID form. My reasoning: canister stoves - and especially canister top stoves - are designed to primarily burn a GAS rather than a LIQUID form of fuel (usually some formulation of isobutane, which "boils" at a very low temperature, usually producing the gas required). To be clear on this: to burn a LIQUID form of isobutane, a stove must have a means of converting the LIQUID fuel to a GAS. This usually means that there's got to be a loop of the fuel line that runs directly through the flame before going into the stove, which is preheated while the canister is still in an upright position after the stove is initially lit (priming), subsequently allowing the liquid fuel to be vaporized when the canister is inverted. This can be seen in the picture of the Windpro II above quite easily. That loop is essential for canister inversion - even with the canister inverted, the stove is actually still burning GAS which it converts from the LIQUID form via the vaporization loop. Otherwise, the stove burns erratically or fails altogether. Roger Caffin makes a hobby of modifying and building stoves and produces a lot of articles on his "experiments" on another site, but he's apparently a good engineer or very lucky. He does a lot of things to a variety of stoves to allow them to run on liquid fuel, like attaching "heat shunts" to canister top stoves to vaporize the fuel, but he apparently knows what he's doing or is very,very brave. So, to repeat: no, the PR can't be used with an inverted canister (without some re-engineering, which I don't advise unless you actually know what you're doing). My knowledge of the required areas of stove design, fuel flow, metallurgy and so forth are not sufficient to that task. I still enjoy reading about Mr. Caffin's exploits, however. One of Roger Caffin's more recent articles, "On Heatsinks and Thermal Balance" (Feb 16, 2021) is available online, but probably requires a paid account: backpackinglight.com/on-heatsinks-and-thermal-balance/
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 8, 2022 22:53:36 GMT -8
That also explains why pure liquid fueled stoves such as the Optimus 8R or MSR XGK and Dragonfly all have a preheat requirement where they’re primed with a bit of fuel which is lit, then just before that goes out (theoretically) you open the main valve again to release fuel flow to start the cooking. Get that vaporization loop hot to gasify the liquid fuel.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,666
|
Post by rebeccad on Jan 10, 2022 9:38:44 GMT -8
That also explains why pure liquid fueled stoves such as the Optimus 8R or MSR XGK and Dragonfly all have a preheat requirement where they’re primed with a bit of fuel which is lit, then just before that goes out (theoretically) you open the main valve again to release fuel flow to start the cooking. Get that vaporization loop hot to gasify the liquid fuel. Yes! Now I understand the priming process on my old Whisperlite
|
|
bluefish
Trail Wise!
Posts: 4,668
Member is Online
|
Post by bluefish on Jan 10, 2022 16:01:37 GMT -8
I've used my PR's to zero without a problem. I stick the canister inside my coat for awhile, place it on a small piece of Reflectix and use the foil wind guard from my Whisperlite to reflect back heat to the canister. I leave the front open and check to make sure the canister is warm, not hot. Never failed, especially with cold weather MSR mix. It's also protected from wind and increases efficiency. I used it Saturday to make soup out in the snow in single digits with our fat bikes.
|
|
|
Post by trinity on Jan 11, 2022 11:26:27 GMT -8
For a lightweight, compact, remote canister stove that allows for liquid feed, I have been very pleased with my Kovea Spider. Note the heating tube that vaporizes the incoming liquid fuel. Another cold-weather option for upright canisters, which I have not yet tried, is the Moulder Strip, which transfers some of the heat from the stove flame back to the canister. I find this solution rather elegant in its simplicity and practicality.
|
|
BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,911
|
Post by BigLoad on Jan 11, 2022 14:15:30 GMT -8
Same here. It took a while to accumulate enough cold-weather use for an opinion. It hasn't yet had the same performance impairment as I sometimes get from non-liquid stoves.
|
|
dayhiker
Trail Wise!
Posts: 8,409
Member is Online
|
Post by dayhiker on Jan 13, 2022 13:06:17 GMT -8
I think the WindPro is just one of MSR's white gas stoves converted for canister, if I remember right. I guess that is why you start it in the upright position?
|
|
rangewalker
Trail Wise!
Agitate, organize and educate.
Posts: 1,029
|
Post by rangewalker on Jan 18, 2022 16:33:54 GMT -8
I have an old WindPro that is living in the bowels of the MSR repair shop awaiting a refit to an inverted valve and stand. I am thinking at the end of March it is due back. And a liquid fuel cousin, a Simmerlite that is supposed to be getting a deep clean of the pre-heat loop and new longer hose. And yes, my old Windpro is a variant of the liquid fuel MSR Simmerlite and has preheat loop so you can vaporize liquids.
|
|
BigLoad
Trail Wise!
Pancakes!
Posts: 12,911
|
Post by BigLoad on Jan 18, 2022 17:22:42 GMT -8
The WindPro was my first canister stove, about 2003 or 2004. I passed it along ten years ago after several years of disuse. It was just too heavy for my purposes. Now my big cold-weather canister is the Kovea Spider.
|
|
rangewalker
Trail Wise!
Agitate, organize and educate.
Posts: 1,029
|
Post by rangewalker on Jan 19, 2022 8:44:20 GMT -8
It was just too heavy for my purposes. Now my big cold-weather canister is the Kovea Spider. MSR Windpro: I bought it on a whim, as so resembled my Simmerlite liquid fuel stove. I had a hiking partner that liked to cook and it was ideal for that. She could burn through a canister a day. I can just hear the seven-days-a-can troop heads explode now. My daughter wants it when I get it back from MSR. She is not a fan of liquid stoves but wants something for WY-MT cold season.
|
|