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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 8, 2022 10:05:39 GMT -8
Skurka summarizing a Yosemite incident spreadsheet. “ Recently, I looked through a spreadsheet complied by the National Park Service that documented 199 food-related bear incidents with backpackers in Yosemite between July 2012 and July 2017. The actual number of incidents in Yosemite and the larger High Sierra is probably greater (maybe much greater), because many incidents are not reported and because black bears inhabit most corners of this world-class wilderness. The sheet describes case studies on multiple failures of canisters (from companies like Bearikade, BearVault, Garcia, and Lighter1 plus the Ursack bear bag) that were due predominantly to human error as well as design or structural flaws. It also provides anecdotal support for Yosemite’s food storage regulations—for every bear-canister failure there are several cases of bears obtaining food or scented items that were hung in a tree, buried, or left unprotected overnight . These storage “techniques” may work elsewhere but not in Yosemite, which is home to arguably the best-trained camp robbers in North America. I dove into the data and came up with these takeaways. ” www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/hiking-gear/not-bear-or-idiot-proof-documented-canister-failures/
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 9, 2022 13:55:14 GMT -8
In NY there’s become a new issue for the clear plastic canisters: at the Adirondack Loj at Heart Lake they’ve got a display of canisters with holes gnawed through their sides. It is reported to affect both new and older canisters so it’s not a UV embrittlement issue. ‘ NOTE: Black Bears in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness have regularly defeated bear-resistant canisters made of clear plastic such as the one depicted on the right in the photo below. Campers should use another type of bear-resistant canister to prevent the loss of food. The clear plastic bear-resistant canisters are effective elsewhere in the Adirondacks and through the Catskills.“ www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7225.html
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driftwoody
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Post by driftwoody on Jan 9, 2022 14:06:03 GMT -8
Black Bears in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness have regularly defeated bear-resistant canisters made of clear plastic such as the one depicted on the right in the photo below. Does this mean the BearVault is non-compliant in the High Peaks?
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Jan 9, 2022 17:31:02 GMT -8
Why do they refer to them as "clear plastic" cans? Why not say what they mean and identify them by name? I guess my BearVault is okay, because it's blue tinted, not clear.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 9, 2022 17:34:40 GMT -8
Why do they refer to them as "clear plastic" cans? Why not say what they mean and identify them by name? I guess my BearVault is okay, because it's blue tinted, not clear.
Nope, it’s specifically Bearvault. They’re on display at the High Peaks Info center at Adirondack Loj at Heart Lake. And, ofcourse, that’s a Beartvault in the photo they point to
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driftwoody
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Post by driftwoody on Jan 9, 2022 18:58:39 GMT -8
Bear vault not allowed in High Peaks?
I'd like to go back there again someday.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 9, 2022 20:06:32 GMT -8
Bear vault not allowed in High Peaks? I'd like to go back there again someday. At least on that page DEC uses “should” use another canister type. If there’s a stated regulation explicitly banning them there or an explicit approved list like many national parks use I’ve not come across it. ADK would know. “ NOTE: Black Bears in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness have regularly defeated bear-resistant canisters made of clear plastic such as the one depicted on the right in the photo below. Campers should use another type of bear-resistant canister to prevent the loss of food. The clear plastic bear-resistant canisters are effective elsewhere in the Adirondacks and through the Catskills.” There’s a specific High Peaks page where they’d surely post a detail such as a Bearvault official regulatory ban. And it’s not there. Simply “ Bear canisters are required for all overnight campers in the Eastern Zone of the High Peaks Wilderness” www.dec.ny.gov/lands/9164.html
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Jan 9, 2022 22:28:18 GMT -8
There’s a specific High Peaks page where they’d surely post a detail such as a Bearvault official regulatory ban. And it’s not there. As I recall, there used to be an explicit prohibition because of a specific bear that had defeated multiple Bearvaults. That bear has since died and their wording appears to have softened.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 9, 2022 22:47:58 GMT -8
There’s a specific High Peaks page where they’d surely post a detail such as a Bearvault official regulatory ban. And it’s not there. As I recall, there used to be an explicit prohibition because of a specific bear that had defeated multiple Bearvaults. That bear has since died and their wording appears to have softened. Yes, yellow-yellow used her teeth on a Bearvault lid design vulnerability. This gnawing through the sides is current and unrelated to that bear or her offspring.
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Post by JRinGeorgia on Jan 10, 2022 5:55:08 GMT -8
The wording suggests that the body of the canister being clear is the reason these canisters are vulnerable, when in fact it seems like it is the BV's tab-lock closure system that is the culprit. I guess it works out just fine for now since the only canister using that tab-lock system is the only canister that's clear, but still misleading.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 10, 2022 6:41:45 GMT -8
The wording suggests that the body of the canister being clear is the reason these canisters are vulnerable, when in fact it seems like it is the BV's tab-lock closure system that is the culprit. I guess it works out just fine for now since the only canister using that tab-lock system is the only canister that's clear, but still misleading. the current bears, no longer yellow-yellow, are gnawing through the sides. “Clear” differentiates the Bearvaults from the Garcia, Bearicades etc.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Jan 10, 2022 7:19:57 GMT -8
“Clear” differentiates the Bearvaults from the Garcia, Bearicades etc. But not as well as "BearVault" would.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 10, 2022 10:24:25 GMT -8
“Clear” differentiates the Bearvaults from the Garcia, Bearicades etc. But not as well as "BearVault" would. True, and it’s not like other agencies don’t specify exact brands and models on their approved lists. Sometimes even extending to “after” certain manufacturing dates.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Jan 10, 2022 10:49:48 GMT -8
Skurka summarizing a Yosemite incident spreadsheet. Good post High Sierra Fan I like that Andrew Skurka authored this. The man has a lot of influence in the'20s emergent hiker community. And he doesn't pull punches. One worrying failure I have encountered among some new hikers, from across generations, is what these folks think is double-safe, hanging canisters. Before any outrage from us geezers that this is felony stupid, just try to help these folks through their fears. I have been trying to get some of my friends in the Forest Service on board with some messaging in their food storage orders. NPS is next. Skurka cites overpacking or wishful bear storage as another cause of failure. I bought my first BV450 to add storage on an overlong self-supported trip and one for a friend that could not carry a pack to supplement my Bearikade expedition in griz land. My friend also had diet issues that required some bulky prepared meals. Two canisters ugh but it worked and we stayed safer. I have given a few but now a BV450 always go out even on day and a half trips. Where allowed, an Ursack goes for garbage and smellies I do not want with my food.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 10, 2022 11:04:46 GMT -8
I can see their issue in a way as canisters disappearing as bears move them around is a growing issue, so there’s the temptation to try and “protect” the canister. Surely that’s how the Snow Creek sow got started, whacking around a canister that just happened to go over a cliff and smash open for her “ah hah!” moment.
‘Though my personal anecdotal evidence is having piled my cookware on the upended canister over decades I’ve never had the pile disturbed come morning, and avoiding engineering tree hangs at the end of a long day is exactly why I use a canister.
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