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Post by indytgrfan on Jul 29, 2022 4:48:33 GMT -8
I'm getting closer, have printed off the Pallister Map Sections for the #30 and #31 hikes in her book. Mapped out several options based on Trip Reports I've read, other threads, and the excellent recommendations here. Do most people also get a Beartooth Brand Map of the Northern Winds as well, or use Earthwalk? Or do you buy the USGS maps for those areas (Bridger and Fremont)? Or just use the printed out maps from Pallister's book or another TOPO on-line source? Kind of torn... on what is needed and what is overkill.
Any last advice?
Trinity I've sent you a PM if you wouldn't mind replying to that.
Thank you to all who've participated in the thread with thoughts, advice, etc. I hope all of your are having a great Summer. I will follow up here with a Trip Report to add to the knowledge base and provide some current information.
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Post by cweston on Jul 29, 2022 5:07:50 GMT -8
Do most people also get a Beartooth Brand Map of the Northern Winds as well, or use Earthwalk? Or do you buy the USGS maps for those areas (Bridger and Fremont)? Or just use the printed out maps from Pallister's book or another TOPO on-line source? Kind of torn... on what is needed and what is overkill. I usually order custom prints from mytopo.com: you can get a USGS style 1:24000 topo of exactly the area you need (rather than carrying multiple USGS maps) on nice plasticized waterproof paper. Although it may be too late for you to order one in time for your trip. You can print maps from Caltopo--that's kind of the standard online mapping source these days. I often screen-shot multiple topos on my phone as backup or if there is an area I might wish to visit that is off my main map. (My phone is normally off in pack the whole trip, but it's there if needed.) You can get standard USGS quads divided into quadrants at www.natgeomaps.com/trail-maps/pdf-quadsFinally, I'm a stickler about this: that every party on the trip (even kids) should have some sort of map with them. Even if it's just a printed smaller-scale map folded up with their other emergency gear. I sometimes write info on the back about where the car is parked, etc. If you're not the trip leader, especially if the trip leader is your dad, it's easy to not pay much attention to such things, I figure.
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Post by topshot on Jul 29, 2022 5:44:42 GMT -8
I have typically carried the Beartooth I believe for mostly on-trail work in the past and printed sections of USGS for off-trail, which is my norm now. If you're doing mostly a Pallister hike, I wouldn't bother with a commercial map. Just supplement as desired from CalTopo.
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Post by indytgrfan on Aug 1, 2022 5:51:51 GMT -8
New question: Does it make a difference which way you go through/over Knapsack Col? East to West (and rewarded with the Titcomb Basin? Or West to East after the Titcomb Basin and then find a campsite somewhere near Peak Lake of Upper Jean Lake? (are there good campsites up there?) is that too high elevation to catch any fish (Peak and Jean Lakes)?
adjacent question.. what is the big deal about Knapsack Col? Just that it's the only way to get over to Titcomb basin if your hike up into the Jean Lakes area...and enables a person to do a Loop?
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Post by cweston on Aug 1, 2022 6:41:14 GMT -8
Does it make a difference which way you go through/over Knapsack Col? East to West (and rewarded with the Titcomb Basin? Or West to East after the Titcomb Basin and then find a campsite somewhere near Peak Lake of Upper Jean Lake? I can't see any meaningful reason to strongly favor one direction over the other. Whatever works for your trip. adjacent question.. what is the big deal about Knapsack Col? OK--please forgive me if this part of my answer is patronizing or insults your intelligence. It's not a trail. It's an exposed, high-elevation alpine route in challenging terrain, including steep, hard snow on what may or may not qualify as a glacier. This is inhospitable terrain, even on the nicest day of summer. Storms can blow in fast. Walking a maintained trail in monsoon/blizzard/lightning is merely very unpleasant, generally. Following an exposed alpine route in those conditions can be something altogether more perilous. (lecture mode off) Another reason Knapsak Col is a "big deal" is that if you are coming from the north (Green River), it saves a *lot* of additional upsy-downsy trail miles to reach Titcomb Basin. Also, the Island Lakes area is one of the most crowded areas in the Winds. For solitude freaks, that might be a reason to approach Titcomb via Knapsack Col.
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Post by oldbill on Aug 1, 2022 9:09:08 GMT -8
Also, the Island Lakes area is one of the most crowded areas in the Winds. For solitude freaks, that might be a reason to approach Titcomb via Knapsack Col. That route weeds out a lot of folks who take the easier route from Elkhart. It's probably relatively crowded these days too with all the pressure the Winds are getting with High Route folks. The trail from Fremont Crossing to Peak L is stunning. Mostly open camping. Tried camping at the Big Slide once. Scenic, but overused and that was 13 years ago.
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Post by indytgrfan on Aug 1, 2022 9:20:38 GMT -8
cweston: No offense taken. I prefer straight talk. I also appreciated the added color on taking that route. I think that solidified the "plan" (such as it is, and subject to change based on any number of factors) to going into Titcomb basin via the Col. Also adds the perspective of getting through Knapsack Col in the morning hours as opposed to afternoon and risking the occasional/frequent afternoon thunderstorms.
Thanks!
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Post by indytgrfan on Aug 1, 2022 18:39:56 GMT -8
I feel like i'm regressing in my abilities/"know how"... and even though there is endless information available on the web, somehow it never is exactly what you are looking for...when you need it. So I got new trekking poles for this trip, my eldest son seems to have taken one set and the other set has disappeared from the boys using them over the years. The black diamond poles we got didn't come with rubber tips, so I bought some, but now I'm second guessing myself...on when to use them (obviously by feel is one way).. so with so many Wind River Experts here, I thought i'd ask... do you use the metal tips, or the rubber tips? Do you bring your "snow" baskets with as well. Keep in mind, this trip is starting in 7 days and heading into Jean Lake, Titcomb Basin, Indian Basin...
and while i'm asking... will we need cramp-ons or ice axe for any of what we're doing (knapsack Col? Fremont?)
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Post by topshot on Aug 2, 2022 3:04:05 GMT -8
FWIW, I've always used metal tips wherever I'm at.
I don't have an ice axe, but also don't go across glaciers or huge steep snowfields. There have been a couple times I've crossed small steep snowfields and use a single pole to act as an arrestor should I slip (2-hands wide apart to thrust into hillside - I should note mine are 3-piece aluminum so I collapse it shorter so it's quite stout). I've always been able to kick in the edges of my shoes somewhat. If it was solid (icy) I wouldn't cross without microspikes (which I normally don't have unless I expect something like that in advance).
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Post by cweston on Aug 2, 2022 3:30:39 GMT -8
will we need cramp-ons or ice axe for any of what we're doing (knapsack Col? Fremont?) Here's my practice, which some others might consider conservative. If I expect/suspect a trip will include hard and/or steep snow, I carry Kahtoola Micro Spikes and an ice axe. I have slipped and performed ice axe self-arrest before: I would not have died or anything if I had slid all the way down that snowfield, but I might have injured myself (at a very inopportune time/place). I would not use traditional climbing crampons unless you have training on how to use them. Also, if a route really requires them, I ain't doing it. There was a time, but that time was decades ago. Of course, the same might also be said about an ice axe (the part about not using it unless you have training)--it's not much good unless you know how to self-arrest and have practiced at least minimally. (It does also dig excellent cat holes.) I also always use metal tips on my poles. Mainly, just be smart. You really can't cross steep snow that's hard/icy without crampons/spikes of some sort. (Especially with pack--it makes you more top-heavy.) Take a good hard look at the situation before you step out onto the snowfield. What does the a condition of the snow appear to be? How steep is it? What would the likely consequences of a slip be? Is there an alternative route? If you don't like the answers to these questions, don't do it. One thing you'll find that all of the doughty off-trail travelers here have in common is that they've turned back many times. Sorry, I sound lecture-y again. Occupational hazard, I guess.
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Post by oldbill on Aug 2, 2022 4:15:16 GMT -8
According to GOS in Pinedale only patchy snow remained on Knapsack as of 2 wks ago. I wouldn't bother with ax or traction devices for this route, but some great advice about NOT crossing steep snow without them! If you are going to climb Fremont, check with GOS. I doubt it at this time of year. It's not Gannett.
I can't recall ever using rubber tips for hiking anywhere.
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Post by cweston on Aug 2, 2022 4:19:44 GMT -8
If you are going to climb Fremont, check with GOS. I doubt it at this time of year. It's not Gannett. Last time I was in Indian Basin was around this time of year, of a heavier-than-average snow year, and the south slopes of Fremont were snow-free, FWIW.
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Post by indytgrfan on Aug 2, 2022 5:07:10 GMT -8
Thanks again for weighing in everyone. I used crampons when I climbed Mt. Baker in Washington and I always revert to that term when in general talking about traction devices like micro spikes.
on the trekking poles and metal tips... thanks for weighing in... I thought I was maybe crazy but it's nice to confirm that i'm not crazy (at least in regards to this) we'll just bring the rubber tips if for some reason we need them.
GOS ? I'm unfamiliar. And thank you for the updated situation on Knapsack Col and Fremont.
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Post by cweston on Aug 2, 2022 5:12:16 GMT -8
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Post by indytgrfan on Aug 2, 2022 8:46:35 GMT -8
that was my guess as well... I'm renting Satellite phone, 1 sleeping pad, and 3 bear storage devices from them. I'll be in there to get some fishing advice on Saturday and Sunday.
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