franco
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Post by franco on Feb 19, 2016 13:57:29 GMT -8
OK, I did not read the rest of the thread but according to the current Pope you can carry protection if you are in or visiting areas with the Zika virus.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 19, 2016 14:20:50 GMT -8
"Stoop"? Who demeaned as "funny" the very real "statistics" of risks in favor of an imaginary one?
Like I said, for protection against people and a handgun is a personal choice, against BEAR!!!, notsomuch. And you did write you'd be skeptical amongst idiots with guns right? "I wouldn't be comfortable with an idiot with a gun". Idiots were your introduction not mine. I had previously simply listed the hazards that were the far more likely risks to be prepared for, in backpacking we have to carry all that crap after all so the value aded proposition calculation is an inherent part of the activity. Lighter tent versus expected and unexpected weather events versus a heavier tent versus the same. Sleeping system choice runs the same gauntlet as does water treatment options to navigation tools and backups. Why should a backpacking firearm dodge that very same scrutiny of utility versus weight? Granted I think a lot of the members look at backpacking as a longer event where weight is an issue, for dayhikes being inefficient and burdened, whether with too much camera gear or whatever, doesn't come as much into play. But the cost benefit calculation for backpacking is almost instinctive: stuff is HEAVY....
Even the most avid of pack rafters wouldn't reject out of hand NOT carrying a raft when river crossings are not on the planned route on a similar basis. Sure there "could" be that flash flood or very radical change in route... but still.
So I'm suggesting if it's the rare fatal event that's of concern there are far more probable ones than any a firearm would address and even then a handgun would be for people, otherwise the firepower needs serious upgrading; or we're back to "idiot" territory again and the requisite discomfort.
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Feb 19, 2016 14:37:00 GMT -8
I think this is about the best behaved gun thread we've had in a long time. +1! I have been watching, thinking the same thing. Well done to all. I have had one person point out to me that the conversation was getting "nasty" because almostthere simply said "keep your gun far away from me!" Beyond that, I think all who stated reasons to not carry are hardly seen as posting political opinions. This tread has been quite civil, way better than the usual stuff that gets moved into the TPA. And yes, sasquatch gets high marks for his polite response to the opinions.
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Post by rodwha on Feb 19, 2016 14:37:50 GMT -8
Stoop? Yes indeed, and quite low in fact.
My saying I felt it was "funny" how people have dismissed carrying protection due to statistics was most certainly not demanding. But by those same kinds of minimal risk statistics I could also say you have no need to lock your doors or wear a seat belt, and I'm certain I wouldn't hear the end of it, most certainly from you apparently.
Imaginary? You do realize that attacks do happen, right? Tell that to their families. You do see how you're absolutely wrong there, right?
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Feb 19, 2016 14:39:28 GMT -8
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 19, 2016 14:52:37 GMT -8
For the OP solo I still like my original post. bpbasecamp.freeforums.net/post/28294/thread[And I'll reiterate, for a lot of backpackers it's a weight issue to be considered like any other.] If all they wanted was a link to some fannypacks with gunslots. Well this IS the gear forum.... A search might show some up, though that may have been the older forum....
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Post by rodwha on Feb 19, 2016 15:05:47 GMT -8
I 100% agree with his assessment. It's a tremendous responsibility. Note to some: He doesn't, hasn't, and probably won't carry a gun, though he supports it IF you KNOW what you are doing, which was my point. And it's likely many feel they are qualified but in truth are not. Though safety is #1 and I'm certainly more proficient with my Civil War era pistols than the huge majority of current shooters with their modern pistols, despite shooting at twice the range, I'm not willing to accept the responsibility and leave mine at home.
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Post by absarokanaut on Feb 19, 2016 15:21:09 GMT -8
I agree that a handgun is not a good choice for grizzly bears, but if you're gonna do it get the minimum three pounder that pops these: www.midwayusa.com/product/613004/barnes-xpb-handgun-bullets-454-casull-451-diameter-250-grain-solid-copper-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20I was charged by a large Grizzly in July 2012. After carrying bearspray for 13 years it served me quite well and he rolled up a half dozen feet in front of me and then ran off with loud protestation. As noted it is not a 100% guarantee, especially when it comes to sows with cubs. However the AK D&G did a big study one should look at. If you're getting a gun for the human animal as is with grizzlies what good is it if it is not at hand on the chest or hip? You carry concealed when milliseconds count it might just as well be buried in your pack. The fact of the matter is with people unless a gun is drawn and you have actual defensible space it does little good. When I gave up packing elk out I decided that if I ever did it again alone I'd have a shotgun. I'm not a gun person, but I've seen firearms scare the kwap out of several bears. HYOH but I'm pretty sure even Cody couldn't of hit one of those eyes bobbing up and down, closing in on me at more than two dozen miles an hour.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Feb 19, 2016 15:26:08 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure even Cody couldn't of hit one of those eyes bobbing up and down, closing in on me at more than two dozen miles an hour. This.
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Post by sasquatch on Feb 19, 2016 22:50:54 GMT -8
Once again let me say thanks to everyone's participation in the thread. I really didn't think my question would garner this much attention. I learned a long time ago not to argue with "anti-gun" people because I would never change their mind as they could never change mine. Like I said, to each their own.
Although I am new to this board I am not new to hiking/backpacking. Have been doing it since I was a wee lad. In my experience most people are usually very considerate when on the trail with regards to firearms. That is why I posed the question, I was curious as to how many others carried while in the bush.
There has been lots of guns not stopping Grizzlies and I totally understand that. I normally don't hike in any area with Grizzlies. My main "threat" from animals would be coyotes and Mountain Lions. And, trust me, I know a mountain lion would typically be on me before I even knew he was there.
Thanks again for joining the conversation and thanks for welcoming me to the board.
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markskor
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Post by markskor on Feb 20, 2016 7:08:16 GMT -8
Whether you carry or not...how you carry - all up to you. (It does seem though, that if not easily/readily accessible then just ballast - added weight.) Here in the Sierra, fail to see the actual need, but...
My main concern - having seen how alcohol, altitude, gravity, (phase of the moon?), and/or over-exertion effects some hikers, would prefer that those who are "strapped" make it clearly known to others around the campsite.
That way I have a choice, before setting up my tent, whether to move on down the trail.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 20, 2016 7:30:51 GMT -8
^this^ regarding access for wildlife encounters. For that either like bear spray in a chest holster or a tactical holster that drops the arm below the pack belt would seem necessary to meet a concern about the unexpected encounter of a threat.
There was a brown bear incident a few years back related to that, they (scouts iirc) were carrying bear spray per Alaska DF&G recommendations but all the canisters were "safely" tucked away in their packs.
That'd go along with the same reasoning as why I carry my camera in a sling off my pack harness: access is everything.
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Post by Lonewolf on Feb 20, 2016 11:26:27 GMT -8
For what? I have no issue with those who want to carry some kind of protection but guns are less useful against any animal in the wilderness, including humans. I solo backpack in grizzly country and only carry bear spray, which works just as well on humans.
Think about it another way... if you do make the shot and don't kill the animal and it runs off, YOU personally have a moral obligation to track it down and finish it off. YOU, not hiking out and notifying F&G. YOU and right now. Hit it with spray and you're off the hook because while it will be miserable for a few hours, it's not going to slowly die or take it out on other hikers. Besides, odds are that an animal hit with bear spray is more likely to avoid further contact with humans.
If for some reason I did decide I really needed to take a gun, it wouldn't be some pissant handgun but a 12ga pump alternately loaded with 3" 000 and hollowpoint slugs, hanging on a singlepoint sling for rapid access.
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Post by Coolkat on Feb 21, 2016 7:07:07 GMT -8
if you do make the shot and don't kill the animal and it runs off, YOU personally have a moral obligation to track it down and finish it off. If it was indeed a true attack I can't imagine many people saying... "oooohhh.. poor thing! I only wounded it so now I'm gonna spend extra effort to kill it." I would imagine now there is a greater chance of getting ambushed by the wounded animal. Wounded, in pain and in fear animals are at their most dangerous. For the most part they'll just be thankful it ran off. I'm not saying that you're wrong. One should probably take the time to finish what you started I just think about .01% of the people out there would have much pity on an attacking animal.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Feb 21, 2016 7:52:10 GMT -8
Hmmm...maybe this is the subliminal reason I have spent the majority of my backcountry experience in Colorado the past 30 years. The wildest experience I've had was meeting Rainy Day Women #12 and #35.
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