Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Oct 7, 2021 7:27:22 GMT -8
Check out all this rotten rock on the knife edge leading to the summit of Mt. Wilson.
I would not go near this stuff!
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Post by Coolkat on Oct 7, 2021 8:20:45 GMT -8
Ummm...yeah.. NO!
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Post by cweston on Oct 7, 2021 9:12:50 GMT -8
Yeah...he's talking about class 3 and class 4, but the real story here is exposure, which is really not taken into account in those class ratings of pitches. I would potentially do a route that is class 3 with one class 4 move, but absolutely not one with this level of exposure.
(Actually probably not. Let's revise that to "45-year-old me would have potentially done a route that is class 3 with one class 4 move.")
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Oct 7, 2021 9:58:57 GMT -8
I have done Quandary's west ridge, the knife edge on Kelso Ridge up Torreys, the Sawtooth off Bierstadt, and a few other exposed routes. But the condition of that rock terrifies me.
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Post by Coolkat on Oct 7, 2021 10:56:14 GMT -8
I would potentially do a route that is class 3 with one class 4 move, but absolutely not one with this level of exposure. Ok so enquiring minds want to know. I've seen you talk before about these different classes that I didn't even know existed. Which I guess shows you what my kind hiking/backpacking has been so far. Can you give me an example of a class 1 verses a 2,3 or 4?
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Post by cweston on Oct 7, 2021 11:09:54 GMT -8
Can you give me an example of a class 1 verses a 2,3 or 4? It's formally known as the Yosemite Decimal rating system. In brief (from Wiki) Class 5 is further enumerated 5.1, 5.2, etc., to cover a finer range of detail of technical climbing moves.
The least-well-defined distinction is the one between class 3 and class 4.
Although the descriptions above mention exposure a little, technically the classes of pitches refer only to the difficulty of the climbing moves, not the amount of risk involved in a fall. So a class 3 climb can be very exposed or have very little exposure. Most people seem to treat class and exposure fairly separately, so that class describes only the type of climbing techniques. If a route were mostly class 2, but with one class 4 move, it would be considered a class 4 route.
Steepness is *relatively* independent of class. A class 2 route could be much steeper than a class 3 route--it's just that the class 3 route has at least one place where it takes class 3 moves to complete it.
The YDS also allows for a grade (I, II, III, IV, etc) which is more of an assessment of the overall difficulty and risk of the route. Can you climb it from the car in a day, or is it a four-day expedition? How remote and far from help is the climb? etc. Most of the climbs that people do in the lower 48 are grade I or II. So, a complete description of a route would give grade, class, and an assessment of the exposure.
The condition of the rock is yet another factor, that doesn't really effect the class rating, but could make a climb much more difficult and dangerous.
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Post by Coolkat on Oct 7, 2021 11:36:53 GMT -8
Most of the climbs that people do in the lower 48 are grade I or II. Since I've never really "climbed" anything I'm thinking that all my "hiking" has never left the class 1 ranking. I did do one route in TN this year where I had to use a cable to cross from one ledge to another other than being kinda scary because of the height it wasn't that hard.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Oct 7, 2021 12:20:59 GMT -8
Here is a pretty close up look at the knife edge on Kelso Ridge up Torreys. It's rated class 3, though I would put it at 3+
A fall to climber's left would send one tumbling down Dead Dog Couloir for potentially a very long ways.
There was a story in BP magazine many years ago about a guy from OK who went out to to hike Grays and Torreys one day in June. The standard class 1 route is very straightforward and devoid of any real hazard. For some reason, he got the idea to take a shortcut up Dead Dog Couloir, which was full of snow. When it got steep, as it does near the top, he used is telescoped trekking poles as ice axes--until it broke. He tumbled down hundreds of feet. Amazing, his pack snagged on a rock and arrested his slide. He reached his cell phone and got SAR. He spent a long time rehabilitating his injuries, and came back to finish the climb (via the standard route).
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Post by cweston on Oct 7, 2021 12:26:13 GMT -8
Here is a pretty close up look at the knife edge on Kelso Ridge up Torreys. It's rated class 3 This is a good demonstration of the independence of class and exposure. It's class 3 climbing--you do sometimes *have to* use your hands to navigate this route, but it's not particularly difficult climbing. But that's some major exposure--as you say, a fall would almost surely be fatal to the left of that knife edge.
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Oct 7, 2021 12:31:35 GMT -8
Kit Carson's north ridge is on my bucket list, though I may never get to it. It is class 4 ascent of about 1,700 ft on very solid rock, but with massive exposure.
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Post by cweston on Oct 7, 2021 12:56:54 GMT -8
I've always looked at the traverse from S Colony Lakes to Kit Carson (so, approaching Kit Carson from the East). That's really fantastic terrain in there. But apparently the route from the Columbia/Kit Carson saddle to the summit of Kit Carson is also class 3+ and exposed. (From there, one could continue down the standard Kit Carson route, on "Kit Carson Avenue," down to Willow Lake.) So that's probably not on my agenda. If there were a way to drop from "bears playground" (The flatish area SW of Obstruction Peak) into either the Willow or Macy drainage and keep it at class 3 max, that would make for an awesome traverse that I would definitely do. But both of those slopes look steep and gullied, so I have my doubts. I'd probably want some reliable beta. ( texasbb was recently at upper Willow Lake--any thoughts on the route from there SE to the main crest of the Sangres?) I know you can drop into Spanish Creek from there, but the Spanish Creek drainage is a bit of a nightmare: the old trail doesn't make it to treeline, so you'd have to bushwhack AND be able to find it. And also, there's apparently no actual legal access to the old trail from below without trespassing on one of the religious retreat properties outside Crestone. (This from locals who live right near the "trailhead.")
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Hungry Jack
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Post by Hungry Jack on Oct 7, 2021 17:56:09 GMT -8
I've always looked at the traverse from S Colony Lakes to Kit Carson (so, approaching Kit Carson from the West). That's really fantastic terrain in there. But apparently the route from the Columbia/Kit Carson saddle to the summit of Kit Carson is also class 3+ and exposed. (From there, one could continue down the standard Kit Carson route, on "Kit Carson Avenue," down to Willow Lake.) So that's probably not on my agenda. If there were a way to drop from "bears playground" (The flatish area SW of Obstruction Peak) into either the Willow or Macy drainage and keep it at class 3 max, that would make for an awesome traverse that I would definitely do. But both of those slopes look steep and gullied, so I have my doubts. I'd probably want some reliable beta. ( texasbb was recently at upper Willow Lake--any thoughts on the route from there SE to the main crest of the Sangres?) I know you can drop into Spanish Creek from there, but the Spanish Creek drainage is a bit of a nightmare: the old trail doesn't make it to treeline, so you'd have to bushwhack AND be able to find it. And also, there's apparently no actual legal access to the old trail from below without trespassing on one of the religious retreat properties outside Crestone. (This from locals who live right near the "trailhead.") IIRC, Spanish Creek Valley is the route climbers take to get to the Kit Carson prow. I have seen a trip report on this route, and it does look like quite a bushwhack. But I think it provides relatively unexposed access to bears playground.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Oct 7, 2021 20:34:51 GMT -8
( texasbb was recently at upper Willow Lake--any thoughts on the route from there SE to the main crest of the Sangres?) I wasn't even thinking in those terms so no, no thoughts.
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Post by absarokanaut on Oct 9, 2021 7:05:21 GMT -8
I never made it up Wilson, got stormed down about a third of the way up from El Deinte's summit. Up here Teewinot in the Tetons occasionally claims the life of someone. Getting off route is nasty up there.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Oct 22, 2021 10:35:57 GMT -8
Celebrating El Diente September 1, 1991Thirty years later have developed less tolerance for exposure. Becoming more alert and cautious as time goes by!
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