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Post by downriver on Aug 29, 2021 3:29:28 GMT -8
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Post by cweston on Aug 29, 2021 4:10:14 GMT -8
Recent shifts in how we do “work” are making it possible for people to live where they want to, in some cases, rather than where work is. So it’s not too hard to see why the boom in the mountain west is happening. (And to be clear, it was already happening before Covid.)
I personally consider many of the mountain towns I’m familiar with to be ruined—overrun by rich douches from Texas and their ilk.
I’d love to live in the mountains, too, but many of those locations have become less desirable to me while also becoming priced out of my league.
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Hungry Jack
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Living and dying in 3/4 time...
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Post by Hungry Jack on Aug 29, 2021 5:24:50 GMT -8
Plenty of inexpensive housing on Chicago’s south and west sides
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balzaccom
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Waiting for spring...
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Post by balzaccom on Aug 29, 2021 5:38:25 GMT -8
It's a problem, and not just because people can work remotely. It's also tied to the fact that wealthy urban dwellers can use the equity in the city house they bought years ago to now buy something nice up in the mountains. And those who can afford to live in these places then turn their houses into Air BNBs and regular BnBs for tourists, who are willing to pay far more than locals. The newest trend is Pocaso...basically turning your house into an AirBNB timeshare. That further reduces housing inventory in the town, while continuing the increasing wealth gap.
When your mailmen, nurses, teachers and firemen can't afford to live in your town, you don't have a community. You have an enclave. And that is not a healthy social situation.
I wish I had some easy answers. I live in Napa, where this is definitely an issue. We have fought to build affordable housing (often over opposition by neighbors) but it's still not nearly enough. (Recent projects may help...) And housing prices continue to rise. I live on a street that is two blocks long and there are six BNBS, three more houses with absentee owners--and tour buses on the streets in the morning to pick up tourists.
It's not just mountain towns. My sister lives in Sevilla, Spain, on a small plaza near the cathedral. When she moved there the 14 houses on the plaza were all family owned and occupied. Now only four of them are--the rest are BNBs or AirBNBs...and they know that every time they walk out of their house there will be a tourist sitting on their steps eating lunch, or resting, or...
Welcome to a world of haves and havenots.
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Post by autumnmist on Aug 29, 2021 8:43:30 GMT -8
I live on a street that is two blocks long and there are six BNBS, three more houses with absentee owners--and tour buses on the streets in the morning to pick up tourists. I had no idea that such invasions were occurring. After the 2008+ financial crisis, some homes in my area became rentals as companies and in one case 2 wanna be landlords bought up the properties. The tenor of the residents changed, as did the neighborhood. But I haven't seen any tour buses. That must be really frustrating; suddenly your private home area has become anything but private.
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swiftdream
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the Great Southwest Unbound
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Post by swiftdream on Aug 29, 2021 8:56:16 GMT -8
Plenty of inexpensive housing on Chicago’s south and west sides That’s the Midwest, not quite the same as the mountain West. Lol Anyway prices have spun out of control around here too and shockingly so, folks asking way too much and then the bidding wars commence and the price goes up through the roof. People are actually paying these exorbitant prices too. Only a few even set foot in the incredible wilderness right out their door. Nice view but it’s far nicer to ramble out into it. Plenty doing that too. We would live no other place and I have lived in a lot places growing up and extensively traveled to many more. Some areas have little or no more land to develop and are in such high demand that prices shoot up way too high.
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Travis
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WYOMING NATIVE
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Post by Travis on Aug 29, 2021 10:25:07 GMT -8
I've been watching the real estate market in the Rockies for well over 20 years and have been in the towns the writer mentions — and many others. And I can't count how many plaintive articles I've read like the one here. Some native of Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana etc. wakes up to realize what is going on as if this all happened when they woke up. In fact, it's been going on for decades. It's like someone in their 40s finally realizes they are not the only ones having kids. Duh.
Some guy moves to Bozeman 20 years ago because it seemed a quiet "small" town near the mountains. And now, 20 years later, he can't believe what is happening. And he thought he was the only one moving to Bozeman for those reasons? What does he think it was like 20 years before he arrived? He is no more a victim of the movement than a participant in the movement. So does he think Bozeman is the only small town in Montana he could move to?
There are still towns in the Rocky Mountain states that are fairly affordable. But they are not the ones that entice the collective imagination quite like a small town near the mountains.
And the entire idea that income disparity arrived only recently with the rich people buying homes in some writer's favorite town? Whoa. I was born in Wyoming not far from Montana, and there has always been a fairly distinct income disparity in my memory. I'm not claiming this trend is not increasing. But that is not just happening in someone's hometown. It's a large-scale American problem that these conservative states of the Rockies are just a part of.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Aug 29, 2021 10:43:21 GMT -8
I personally consider many of the mountain towns I’m familiar with to be ruined—overrun by rich douches from Texas and their ilk. I wish I resembled that remark! I recently read that some of the big chain real estate-related and mortgage companies, like Zillow and Rocket Mortgage, are buying up "fixer-uppers" and flipping them quickly, moving the price of housing up still further. I suppose that some of the thousands of people my wife watches religiously on TV are doing some good, but I hate the idea that has been propagated that someone can do this and make a small fortune. I don't know where this is going, but we're running out of housing faster than we're running out of room. Maybe faster than we're running out of building materials. We need to start thinking hard about the long term game - in fact, we should have started thinking about the long term game about 50 years ago - or more. We need to stop reproducing ourselves (so compulsively) and have a think about where we are. (I don't think that's going to happen.)
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swiftdream
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the Great Southwest Unbound
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Post by swiftdream on Aug 29, 2021 10:57:11 GMT -8
Yes, everybody and their cousins are fighting to get homes and flip them around here. They are very aggressive and persistent.
And there has indeed been a huge jumpe in prices well above the 45 year norm while I’ve been here. It has almost happened overnight. Girlfriend has been mocking it lately. The percentage jump is unbelievable.
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Post by autumnmist on Aug 29, 2021 15:39:25 GMT -8
gabby, it isn't only the large real estate and mortgage companies that are flipping. I get calls on behalf of "local homeowners" (who refuse to provide any further identification). Flipping seems to be popular now, but some of the homes are rented out, at rates that would consume almost all of my monthly SS allotment. I'm hearing of rents in the $900 range, for houses in a middle class area, which is totally ridiculous for this section of the county. Where middle class people get funds to make these kind of payments is beyond me. One of the bad side effects are these wanna be flippers who really don't have a grasp of the real estate market, and think that all they have to do is recruit people. I've probed some of them to see how much they really do know, and from their lack of succinct responses, I know that the ones calling me have no concept of the role title work plays. I'm wondering if they also skip the disclosure of potential issues obligations. The real estate company I planned to use for my father's house is also involved. They no longer offer priority viewing, for Vets, first responders, medical people and educators. Homes are instead of being offered first to those categories are instead made available through the MLS. The now former trust accountant I had planned to use, and the real estate company are now both getting involved. It's amazing how many people are now considering themselves investors.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Aug 31, 2021 6:03:42 GMT -8
Have a few posts in the environmental area showing a trend of many Americans are moving into places with increasing climate problems. Sometimes it’s towards less expensive real estate, … sometimes it’s for expensive real estate with views and recreational opportunities … or just to be out in “big sky” territory. The last 2 can start a bidding war though. Should be interesting when looking at what’s happening with popular (especially with the wealthy) South Lake Tahoe under an evacuation order as the Caldor fire reaches for its town limit. SLT has been a getaway for the Bay Area wealthy that just increased with COVID. www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/caldor-fire-sweeps-toward-lake-tahoe-after-mass-evacuation-n1278106Pretty sure the insurance companies will “adjust” after the fire is resolved. One consequence may be multi-story dwellings for the workers (some already exists) that’s less flammable, easier to evacuate, etc.. They say Tahoe keeps its brush well-maintained, but visiting last month I noted a lot of pine needles. May depend on how hot that fire runs.
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muleman
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Forester
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Post by muleman on Sept 9, 2021 7:42:56 GMT -8
The Environmental Movement has been going on for 50 years. Ex-urbanites having been heading for the hills for decades. Working from home at remote computer terminals is causing the most recent wave of mobility to smaller towns.
At first it was places like Aspen, Jackson Hole, Taos, Sedona, Santa Fe. Those towns have been changed forever. Later it was places like Bend, Whitefish, Missoula, Couer D'Alene, Nevada City, Park City, Steamboat Springs, Crested Butte. Educated people of means are looking for beauty with amenities.
Now Bozeman seems to be the hot ticket. The quality of life indicators are very interesting to try to get a handle on. At first the groovy places seem cheap, but that all changes once their are articles in Outside Magazine, and the New York Times. There is irony in the fact that the service people that work in a place like Aspen can't afford to live there and commute from somewhere else.
I was a nomad until around the age of 40 and was always on the look out for the next great place. Seven states so far. This topic has fascinated me for 50 years ever since I left the East Coast because the waves were better in California.
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Post by marmotstew on Sept 9, 2021 8:31:54 GMT -8
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Post by cweston on Sept 9, 2021 8:40:36 GMT -8
Here’s one. Says Silvercliffe but I think it’s in Westcliffe. Only $80K, too much? Right below the Sangre de Cristo mountains and all the free MAGA hats you want. Yeah, Silvercliffe and Westcliffe are contiguous: Silvercliffe is the less chic part of town. The small, remote towns on both sides of the Sangres have (so far) maintained their isolation and rustic charm, for the most part. In the case of Crestone, it has a hippy vibe that may be offputting to some potential buyers, which helps keep demand in check. Other than Westcliffe and Crestone, the valleys on either side of the range are pretty sparsely populated and economically challenged.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Sept 9, 2021 9:58:16 GMT -8
I haven't seen Jim Fuller post here lately, but I'm sure he would approve if I nominated Cheyenne Wells, CO.
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