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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 15:35:02 GMT -8
Specific agreement even with the same boot! You may be interested in trying the Zamberlan Evo Lite as yes they're much lighter than Vioz. Both are great. tipowalter - thanks for the tip! I will look into those. If they fit like the Vioz, I will definitely get some. the weight for my size is very appealing, and it's not a shoe composed of fabric and leather scraps!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 16:48:49 GMT -8
This may seem odd but hear me out. I don't care for waterproof shoes/boots because I've discovered there is no such thing. Especially in an all day rain and once they are wet they are hard to get dry. So the last couple of years I've been hiking in a trail shoe that drains well and dries fast and this has worked well for me for the most part. Walking through a creek once or twice a day or a short rain is no big deal because they get a chance to dry. But it doesn't work well when I have to deal with rain a few days in row where my feet stay constantly wet as I'm very prone to blisters then. Last fall I did a 4 day hike where between rain and walking through heavy grass and ferns my feet never did get dry. So I started looking for a waterproof gaiter that covers most of the shoe but apparently these don't exist. So I'm wonder if you guys have any ideas on keeping shoes dry? At this point I think I'm just gonna try rubber banding a large plastic bread bag to my ankles and then across the top of the shoe. I've considered waterproof socks but I've been told they don't hike well. Here's my personal experience - All leather boots will never be waterproof, but you can delay the inevitable for a long time, and still have warm dry feet in camp. For a brief time, I fitted and sold hiking boots (All we had were Fabiano, Asolo, and other all leather), and this is the instructions we gave them.
1) Treat the exterior with your leather treatment of choice. The idea is to get the water to bead up and run off for as long as possible. Mud, scrapes, and usual trail conditions will affect that in time though, so they will start to get damp.
2) If the boots are lined with leather - treat the inside with a thin coating of the same leather treatment. The idea is - to prevent water that gets inside the boot from immediately soaking in, and not affect the breathability too much. For example - lets say you cross a stream and it is deeper than expected. Water gets into your boots. With a treated liner, you at least have a fighting chance to dump the water and wipe them out, and they will still be mostly dry inside.
Full leather boots with out the GTX liner do breathe better, but not as well as the currently fashionable fabric ones. If you treat the inside with too much repellent, you'll be wearing sweat boxes. Don't ask me how I know.........
3) So you have damp or wet boots after a long soaking day. In camp - change to dry socks, with a waterproof (bread bags are what I used in the '70's) or VBL socks, over your dry socks. You can now wear the boots around in camp with warm(ish) dry feet.
4) At night, remove the insoles and turn the boots upside down ( or stuff them with a drying rag etc) and they will be surprisingly dry-er by morning. Wring the moisture out of your hiking socks and hang them up in your tent or the tent vestibule. They'll still be damp in the morning, but tolerable. In cold conditions where freezing could occur, we encouraged them to put the boots in a stuff sack and down in the bottom of their sleeping bag. They wouldn't dry but they would be non frozen in the morning. Trust me- It's really uncomfortable unless you have a longer than necessary sleeping bag.....
5) In the AM, after you pack up camp, put your damp hiking socks on, then your boots. you'll be good to go. Your feet will warm up as you hike.
Keep in mind - this is the system I used before anybody ever heard of Goretex (or any other WPB materials!). It works, but there are obvious compromises.
6) Not long ago, I watched a YouTube video by a guide in Scotland, who swore by Goretex over socks. He would be out for days in their typical soaking weather conditions and have warm dry feet. Can't find that vid now, but it would be worth a search just to hear him out.
7) I use GTX lined boots. I wear gaiters in foul weather, or for areas that are muddy, and for stream crossings. They are warm, but I like 'em. On rainy trips, I wear gaiters, and drape my rain pants over the gaiters. Shingle effect - water never enters the top of the boot. I've had dry comfortable feet for days with that setup. Stream crossings? - I do them quickly with that setup. but sometimes do still get a trickle inside the boot. Ah well - I know what to do in camp in that case!
Something I have not tried, is Ranger bands over the gaiters at the top of the boot, to keep water from sneaking up under the gaiters while feeling my way across a stream.
Not long ago, I had some all leather boots by Alico, and was pleasantly surprised by how much they dried out overnight compared with my GTX boots. But i sold them because my feet didn't like them! I'm now looking at some Zamberlans that do not have a GTX lining, just to give them a shot.
I think the reason why manufacturers focus on supplying WPB liners in boots is because people think they will never have wet feet. Not true. You'll have dryer feet in the right conditions, but we need to be prepared for damp/wet feet no matter what we wear. It's part of hiking! If you just can't stand GTX liners in boots, try this system, it worked pretty well for the boots we had at the time. Principles are the same, there are much better boot treatments though. Once you've figured out your system, start a thread. I'd be interested in seeing how you handled the inevitable!
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Aug 1, 2021 5:47:48 GMT -8
I really prefer having stream crossing shoes at this point. a few ounces extra but I really don't care. I recently have started hammock camping and trout fishing so I broke down and bought a pair of light Speedo water shoes. It is nice to get out of my boots at camp but for setting up the hammock, since I am so new at it still, I have to keep getting in the hammock to see if it is right, get out adjust and repeat a couple of more times. The light, and so far clean, water shoes are good for doing that. Getting in and out of my boots to do this would be more of a pain. I have yet to try trout fishing on the trail. I looked at Crocs but they are so bulky and now expensive. The fact that they are trendy also is a minus for me. The Speedos are a little heavier than Crocs but easily fit inside my pack. They have a pretty grippy bottom. I don't know if I could hike much in them. They are close to being barefoot.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Aug 1, 2021 9:06:25 GMT -8
I'd try experimenting with plastic bags, worn over the socks and inside the gaiters (to prevent them from being shredded.
I would often put old bread bags over the kids socks (worn with hiking shoes or boots) when hiking through wet grass or marsh lands, and have used this trick myself.
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Post by tipiwalter on Aug 1, 2021 13:10:49 GMT -8
tipowalter - thanks for the tip! I will look into those. If they fit like the Vioz, I will definitely get some. the weight for my size is very appealing, and it's not a shoe composed of fabric and leather scraps! Unfortunately the Evo Lites don't come in Wide sizes as does the Vioz's. Something to consider. Or buy a half size larger than you normally use.
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Aug 1, 2021 17:10:27 GMT -8
Here's my personal experience - All leather boots will never be waterproof, but you can delay the inevitable for a long time, and still have warm dry feet in camp. For a brief time, I fitted and sold hiking boots (All we had were Fabiano, Asolo, and other all leather), and this is the instructions we gave them. @va3pinner Great post and fits with my experience, so that makes it even better [grins] And my experience ranges from a youth hiking in the desert in monsoon season with a canvas hiking boot. The worse part of them was the stink and their potential for some sick bacterias when they wetted out. I host a fleet of hiking boots and shoes, from fabric upper trail runners to full leather mountain boots (Lowa). Rather than try to find one all-around waterproof shoe for US Rockies ranges and basins, for backpacking I use a leather outer modern leather boot, GTX, with fabric liner. Good socks and gaiters. I take along a pair of Altra Lone Peak 4.0's with the best insole for a stream crosser and rest shoe if the leather boots get soaked. With the good insole and the best merino sock, I can hike for a day or more in the Lone Peaks. As long as I don't have a lot of rock or steep loose downhill. I do use VBL socks or booties in winter. My winter hiking boots, snowshoe, and universal binding ski types are 1-2X oversize to accommodate the extra layers and not constrict my foot. My oilfield years taught me you can hike in rubber boots, like Mucks or Wellingtons, with fitted insoles and good socks. Of course then you were headed back home, the motel, or the camp at the end of the very long day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 5:49:27 GMT -8
Addition to my post but desperate because it might actually answer the posted question!
I cannot find the video of the Scotland guide and his personal system, but did find lots of great vids on Youtube of hiking in Scottish highlands for days in the rain. Well - I got distracted.... Seems there are two camps: WPB boots, and fabric mesh hiking boots sized to fit wool socks covered with a goretex liner sock. Kinda makes sense. In those conditions, boots are going to wet-out no matter what you're wearing; so let the boots get wet, but keep your feet dry with a WPB sock. Daily foot care would be essential too.
Interesting on some of their longer trails, there are Hostels and other locations with 'drying rooms'. You can stop, spread out all your gear in a heated dry space and go have a meal at a pub. I kinda like that idea!
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Post by oldbill on Aug 6, 2021 6:41:26 GMT -8
Great detailed discussion. It's one of those gear issues I keep coming back to. I've settled on GTX boots for most rough terrain fall/late summer backpacking trips in alpine settings. Also difficult to fit feet so very few options. Currently Salomon Quest 4D's. Usually with low OR Rocky Mountain gaiters. 6" flood height helps for smaller crossings. Haven't attempted wading yet in them as routes haven't required it. Keeping even relatively dry on a 20', knee deep crossing isn't going to happen. Like @va3pinner , leaning towards extra camp/stream crossing shoes. A lightweight but stable stream crossing shoe still eludes me. Sometimes use 3.5oz/pr NRS neoprene/nylon socks as a camp shoe, but they don't have any protection underfoot. Some lighter weight water shoes have at least some better protection. Crocs in size 11 are about 12oz. Newer versions are pretty pricey with only 25% less weight. Looking forward to seeing what others are using, like what bradmacmt has found. While they look like poor fit in the toe, just ordered a pair of these to check fit and weight: Clapzover Sandals
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Aug 6, 2021 9:06:03 GMT -8
My observations:
Hiking in breathable trail runners, I ignored wet/dry and focused on socks. Never got blisters, the socks would be dry within an hour of wading a stream. On the Sespe River trail I crossed the creek 8+ times. Damp socks never caused a blister.
Transitioning back into full grain leather boots after years of trail runners due to neuromas and a need to protect the feet better -- the non goretex leather boots are not fully waterproof but keep my socks clean and the feet dry. As long as I don't wade deep water that floods in the top.
Blisters have in the past been all about the socks I used. Stopped worrying about wet when I stopped blistering. Darn Tough, Smartwool PhD and other quality wool socks made the blisters go away.
I do use crocs now, when crossing deep water, because I can. Leather boots take a while to dry out the interior. My intent is avoiding foot fungus, which I had so horribly bad that toenails fell off, and once you've had it, it's always present. I started out hiking years ago with GTX shoes. That caused the fungus rot - stopped using them and treated the fungus by soaking feet in vinegar five minutes per day for a month, the toenails grew back and the skin healed. GTX does not dry fast, nothing but swamp foot for miles once it was damp inside. Threw the shoes away.
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Post by cweston on Aug 6, 2021 9:26:49 GMT -8
My thoughts, echoing many others: •I mostly wear GTX-lined boots for multiple-day high-country mountain hiking trips. (Non-GTX trail runners for most other types of hikes.)
•I change into camp shoes before wading anything more than ankle deep, unless my feet are already swamped.
•Gaiters will indeed help impede water infiltration into the boots (from rain, snow, groundwater, etc), but ultimately wont prevent it. •Good socks and prophylactic blister prevention with tape, bodyglide, etc as necessary are critical to mitigating the effect of wet feet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 12:13:53 GMT -8
Transitioning back into full grain leather boots after years of trail runners due to neuromas and a need to protect the feet better -- the non goretex leather boots are not fully waterproof but keep my socks clean and the feet dry. As long as I don't wade deep water that floods in the top. What brand all leather boots are you using?
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Aug 6, 2021 13:22:14 GMT -8
Transitioning back into full grain leather boots after years of trail runners due to neuromas and a need to protect the feet better -- the non goretex leather boots are not fully waterproof but keep my socks clean and the feet dry. As long as I don't wade deep water that floods in the top. What brand all leather boots are you using? Vasque Summits. With Birkenstock 3/4 length insoles, metatarsal arch supports, to keep bunions from progressing to the point that I require surgery. They're working great. The insoles and the boots have reduced the pain of the neuromas and the weird neuropathy I was having to nearly nil. Being kept awake by spasming foot muscles was not fun.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 13:31:29 GMT -8
What brand all leather boots are you using? Vasque Summits. With Birkenstock 3/4 length insoles, metatarsal arch supports, to keep bunions from progressing to the point that I require surgery. They're working great. The insoles and the boots have reduced the pain of the neuromas and the weird neuropathy I was having to nearly nil. Being kept awake by spasming foot muscles was not fun. Glad that's working out for you! I can't find those in mens anymore. I'd like to find an all leather non-goretex boot that would fit me. Like you, I have very specific boot needs, and the only thing that really works well for me are Zamerlan Goretex lined. Ah well........
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Aug 6, 2021 14:45:26 GMT -8
Vasque Summits. With Birkenstock 3/4 length insoles, metatarsal arch supports, to keep bunions from progressing to the point that I require surgery. They're working great. The insoles and the boots have reduced the pain of the neuromas and the weird neuropathy I was having to nearly nil. Being kept awake by spasming foot muscles was not fun. Glad that's working out for you! I can't find those in mens anymore. I'd like to find an all leather non-goretex boot that would fit me. Like you, I have very specific boot needs, and the only thing that really works well for me are Zamerlan Goretex lined. Ah well........ The brand is owned by Redwing. I bought them in a Redwing store a few years ago. They exist. Mine are in fact a 10.5 in men's....
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Post by oldbill on Aug 10, 2021 12:22:38 GMT -8
Following up on that option. Clapzovr "collapse over". Several comments about top being too flexible and not preventing foot roll. Many other issues as well. Amoji's came highly recommended. I weighed the size 11's that showed up today. Too big and a whopping 15 oz/pair. So, the search continues!
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