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Post by downriver on May 4, 2021 6:04:13 GMT -8
Who makes the best bags these days? Feathered Friends or Western Mountaineering? Thoughts?
Regards,
DR
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Post by bradmacmt on May 4, 2021 9:28:13 GMT -8
After comparing them both side-by-side I went with WM nearly 30 years ago. They just seemed "loftier." Nothing has changed my appraisal since. I still think FF makes great bags, but think WM's bags are a skosh better. I like that WM puts draft collars in most of their mid-temp bags while FF doesn't, and WM's trim 59" shoulder girth works well for me. FF's is 58" which is pushing the "tightness" envelope a bit too closely.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on May 4, 2021 9:53:46 GMT -8
For me they don’t necessarily directly compete: slightly different designs mean “best” fits for different uses. That said I’ve a pair of Western Mountaineering Antelopes (one GWS, one microfiber) that cover every use case I need. www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/YmWv (Your mileage Will vary)
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on May 4, 2021 10:25:46 GMT -8
I think you're splitting hairs. Both produce great bags. Like HSF said above, "best" depends on your personal requirements.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on May 4, 2021 11:04:43 GMT -8
I'm saying WM is better, since I just bought my first one (Megalite). What's the opposite of sour grapes? :-)
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zeke
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Post by zeke on May 4, 2021 12:25:04 GMT -8
Short answer? IMO, WM. Longer answer? WM is easier to find in stores, so a buyer can handle it. The quality of the product is so close as to be indistinguishable. Size of the bag and the dimensions of the buyer may be a determining factor.
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Post by oldbill on May 4, 2021 13:31:47 GMT -8
Both great products. Bought a WM Versalite over 20 years ago. Still in great shape. My girlfriend didn't think it was warm enough for her (15F rating) on a cold NH backpack (lows around 20). After a lot of investigation, went with FF 0F Murre which has worked well for her in similar temps.
I had shipped my WM bag back for an overfill thinking it might be time for a refreh. The volume change was so much that I really couldn't justify carrying it!! They were great about removing it and returning the bag to a more friendly weight/volume.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on May 4, 2021 13:44:53 GMT -8
Tomato/tomatoe/thomahto/tomatoh/...
I've settled on WM, but there ain't a darn thing wrong with FF. I have (had?) one of theirs as well. Might have sold it. Need to check on that...
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on May 4, 2021 14:39:07 GMT -8
I bought FF for my wife and WM for myself. You can't go wrong with either one.
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bcpete
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Post by bcpete on May 7, 2021 7:45:44 GMT -8
Who has ever really tried both enough to compare properly?
All I can tell you is that I asked the same thing about 20 years ago, and decided to go with WM because they were easier to order online at the time. WM are awesome bags, and my wife & I have 4 of them (extreme shoulder season & 3 season).
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Post by turley on May 9, 2021 1:02:04 GMT -8
Personally I don't think one is better than the other as these are two of the gold standard down sleeping bag companies on the market. That said I prefer the cut and stiffer zipper tape on the WM...but females may prefer the cut of Feathered Friends female specific bags. Really can't go wrong with either.
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Post by bradmacmt on May 9, 2021 5:16:20 GMT -8
Who has ever really tried both enough to compare properly? Only to the extent I laid them out on a backpackatorium shop floor - no, not exactly an empirical test. As I said earlier, comparing them side by side I felt WM was "loftier." All veddy scientific! One thing that has always bugged me about FF is they don't give you the loft of their bags (and therefore the baffle cut). You're left to trust their numbers without a loft figure. Color me old fashioned, I like to know. Also, I believe WM understates the ci fill per oz of their down. I like that. Can say going back over the years... I've had: WM Dakota (Gortex) WM Antelope (GWS) WM Alpinlite Currently have: WM Summerlite WM Superlite WM Versalite My wife had a Versalite and currently uses an Alpinlite (though smaller than me, she prefers a roomy bag - me, I like a trim mummy). Every bag we've ever owned had overfill, except the Summerlite.
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Westy
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Post by Westy on May 10, 2021 23:53:42 GMT -8
We have:
Daughter - WM UltraLite 20° Me- WM MegaLite 30° Me - FF Swallow UL 20°
Both brands are fine products.
I like FF 950+ Goose Down
Purchased the FF Swallow 20° over the WM Alpinlite 20°.
Wish I had bought the FF Swallow 30° over WM MegaLite 30°
The reason is ultra minutia........
The dimensions of the shoulder and foot on the FF Swallows are 3" smaller at the shoulder and 1" smaller at the foot.
Being of small frame, the smaller dimensions are a better fit and seem to be slightly warmer.
Call it cuddle factor if you will.
WM vs. FF?
Both are top shelf. Would never consider other OEM's. Down is their core competency.
Select the product and model that fits your temperature rating and personal dimension preference.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on May 11, 2021 5:20:58 GMT -8
My first "investment" sleeping bag was a FF and, back then, you were basically ordering a custom bag. Bags were made to order so the lead time was long but you got to choose zipper side and from a "standard" set of colors, lengths and widths, plus custom sizing was possible for a small fee. Gender-specific gear wasn't quite the norm yet and being only 5'2", I really appreciated those options. It was like Christmas (may have actually been..) when I finally got my bag. Shipping charges were exorbitant.
By the time I was ready to buy a warm-weather bag with an objective of being as light as possible, FF's business model had changed, and many of the options were gone. I think they took their most popular combinations of color/length/width by gender and made them their model offerings. So when I wanted a wide-shoulder narrow-mid (i.e., a "man" shape) in a short length, I was now out of luck.
Of course, it took me a while to figure all that out because I don't know my birds well enough to guess what the temp/shape differences might be between an "Osprey", "Swallow", "Petrel", "Egret" and "Hummingbird"... I wish they would take a page out of WM's website and make a spec table.
At that point, I switched to WM and really haven't looked back, except maybe to consider a custom quilt from one of the cottage companies. One big advantage was that I could go to my local gear shop and try them out for size, which became a really important thing as my gear weight became more and more efficient. Their 5'6" length is really perfect for me (FF's "women's lengths" are, I think, 5'3" and 5'9") and their narrower mummies fit well. That better fit makes the overall weight lighter in my case. I can also save the shipping costs (since everybody now charges out-of-state taxes, which used to be the trade-off.)
This is a LONG way of saying that I think "better" when you get to two of the best bags is mostly personal -- which fits you better and meets your specific needs. I think the down is comparable (both companies claim to source their down in eastern Europe) and both are made in the U.S.
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Post by bradmacmt on May 12, 2021 4:13:39 GMT -8
I like FF 950+ Goose Down Westy, I've long been a bit skeptical of Feathered Friend's 950ci claim, given that when you lay them out on the floor side by side with Western Mountaineering bags the WM usually seem fuller. Again, I think FF makes great products, but I'm doubtful of their loft claims. Here's what WM says about down - and it's this type of conservative approach and full disclosure that I like about WM: "Fill Power Testing
To perform a certified test, a sample of down is sent to an independent laboratory. There the sample is placed in a large screened box and allowed to condition for 5 days before being tested. During this time the sample is stirred, mixed, and blown with a warm hair dryer. This conditioning is intended to stabilize the sample so that consistent results may be obtained. Then a 1 ounce sample is drawn and placed into a measuring cylinder. A piston weighted to 68.4 grams is placed on top of the down and when it comes to rest the volume of the down is measured in cubic inches. In spite of 5 days of conditioning, the laboratory will publish their results with a plus or minus 5% error. This is a full 10% range and for an 850 fill test, results in an 80 point variance! Furthermore, conditioning actually improves the sample by drying and blowing out dust and other small particles while the down at the factory remains unconditioned! This is what we mean by an Optimistic fill power rather than a Practical fill power rating. If two bags have the same internal volume, the bag with more loft will be warmer.
If two bags have the same loft, the bag with the smaller internal volume will be more efficient and warmer. If two bags have the same loft and internal volume, but one has a lot more down fill by weight, then check the density of down inside the chambers and the fill power claimed by the manufacturer. Well filled down chambers provide better down control.
850 Plus Fill Power Goose Down
Western Mountaineering uses the highest lofting premium goose down available for all of our sleeping bags. Our fill power claim of 850 Plus is meant to be a realistic estimate given the variability of the product and the nature of fill power test methods. In reality, our certified tests most often are higher than what we claim. This is because the certified test methods provide the most optimistic fill power rating and do not represent what is being put into your sleeping bag. Recently, these testing methods for fill power changed again making the fill power ratings even higher. Now, each sample of down will receive a tumble dry before it is given several days to loft up in a perfectly controlled environment. During that time it is enhanced by using a blow dryer to boost loft. Your sleeping bag will never receive that kind of treatment, and this is why we claim a more practical fill power. Rest assured, we use only the finest goose down available."
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