null
Trail Wise!
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Post by null on Feb 17, 2021 5:45:01 GMT -8
I'm considering taking a group of say 10 people (flying in from around the country) to hike the High Sierra Trail in 2022. I'd like to start in Sequoia and end at Whitney Portal. If I can't get an exit permit for Whitney Portal, I'm fine continuing on to Onion Valley or Cottonwood.
Among the significant logistical issues is how to get a group back to Fresno (or Merced or Oakland or Bakersfield) from the East Side of the Sierra. Is there a shuttle service or combination of shuttles / public transport that does this? Or someone to hire with a passenger van and 12+ hours? I'd actually even be fine with flying into Fresno and flying out of Las Vegas if it wasn't for what to do with everyone's off-trail stuff.
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Post by johntpenca on Feb 17, 2021 6:16:49 GMT -8
That is way too many people. The impact is irrational. While I appreciate your interest in getting folks outdoors, that large of a group in the backcountry just pisses me off.
I am not aware of any shuttles from the east side to Fresno. If you insist on taking that many people, it would probably make more sense to rent two cars. Have one party start in SEKI, the other at Whitney. Exchange keys in the middle.
You could also use East Side Transportation to get from Lone Pine to Mammoth. Then take YARTS to Merced and bus/BART from there to SF/Oakland or Fresno. I've got some holes in my description, but it would go something like that. Been a long time since I looked at the transportation options from Yos to Merced to the Bay Area.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 17, 2021 9:59:22 GMT -8
There is only a Trail Crest exit quota from another Inyo NF trailhead. That daily quota won’t apply for a permit from another agency such as Sequoia Kings Canyon. The superior travel plan might be fly into Fresno but take the Eastern Sierra Transportation Authority bus north to Reno from Lone Pine to leave. there are private shuttles. Ten plus is 2 vans: $800 per van. www.eastsidesierrashuttle.com/www.estransit.com/Another information source for logistics is the Lone Pine Chamber Commerce lonepinechamber.org/services-available-chamber-of-commerce/ETA: On the issue of your group size? You’d have a far better (that is to say, any chance at all: the total reserved daily quota is twenty) by going outside the quota season. Permits are still required, but not limited in number of daily entries. “ Wilderness Permits During Non-Quota Season (9/20/2020-5/27/2021) Outside the quota season wilderness permits are free, self-issued, and are not limited to daily entry quotas. Non-quota season this year will be from September 20th, 2020 through May 27, 2021. Self-issue wilderness permits are available at the nearest permit-issuing station. Please fill out the permit legibly and completely. The information you provide on your self-issued permit may be helpful in a search and rescue incident.” www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/wilderness_permits.htmThough for the park, commercial visits might fall under different regulations. Commercial Use Authorizations (CUAs)“ Wilderness CUAs Applications for a CUA to operate commercial services in SEKI wilderness were accepted during a designated "open season", beginning June 18, 2019 and ending at 11:59 p.m. PDT on October 18, 2019. The parks authorized a limited number of CUAs valid for a two-year period, from January 1, 2020 through December 31, 2021 to provide Guided Day Hiking, Guided Fishing Instruction, Guided Backpacking, Guided Photography Instruction (workshop), Guided Mountaineering, Guided Pack and Saddle (Stock) Services, Guided Backcountry Ski Mountaineering, Guided Nordic Activities (Snowshoeing/Skiing), and Guided Portering (Dunnage/Gear Transport) visitor services within wilderness throughout the Parks. The next two-year Wilderness CUA application cycle (operating term January 1, 2022 through December 31, 2023) will open in 2021. Please check here for updates on when the "open season" will occur.” www.nps.gov/seki/getinvolved/dobusinesswithus.htm |
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Post by johntpenca on Feb 17, 2021 18:26:53 GMT -8
Thanks for your input HSF.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Feb 18, 2021 6:26:39 GMT -8
That many people would make a great key exchange. Five go in from the east, five go from the west, meet in the middle and exchange car keys.
The High Sierra Trail is well on the way to being like the JMT, a superhighway through the Sierra. The impacts have already shown - in the camping limitations and the pit toilet at Hamilton Lake. Last time I was on that trail, someone had managed to start a small wildfire at Nine Mile Creek in the slope-y campsites, torched the duff in that area. It was pretty darn crowded. Think it's even more so now. Bearpaw, the two times I've been there, reminded me a lot of Little Yosemite Valley, which reminded me of a frat party.
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Post by stevet on Feb 18, 2021 19:45:59 GMT -8
2nd (or 3rd) the idea of splitting the group in two, hiking opposite directions and the key exchange. The Mt Whitney trail access is by lottery so for certainty in planning for that large a group would plan Crescent Meadow to Cottonwood and Cottonwood to Crescent Meadow. Mt Whitney summit being a 15 mile out and back from Crabtree Meadow. This routing gives you best success at getting permits for 10 people and solves the shuttle problem.
LAX is probably the best airport to fly into since the drive distance to both trailheads is approx the same. Las Vegas a 2nd choice.
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null
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Post by null on Feb 19, 2021 6:48:22 GMT -8
Thank you for all the responses, I will do more research given the information you've provided. You are right to point out the impact of a large group. I'm painfully aware of it. For what it's worth however. a SEKI commercial backpacking permit allows 15 people -- at least it did 5 years ago.  |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 21, 2021 19:32:12 GMT -8
I might disagree a bit about group size: within the quota season when total trail use is controlled what's the difference between 6 pairs or 10 guests and two guides? For on trail visitor experience I'd think it's better: get most of the trail traffic encounter over with in a single chunk leaving more of the day without people.
The over night site would possibly be bit more of a concern but with the HST focus on the locker locations I'm not seeing an overnight issue either. The overall impact is being controlled by the wilderness permit daily quota. Off in the realm of dispersed back of the wilderness high alpine that size group would be unwelcomingly jarring (I've been there, even across a lake from a group that big and the sound alone intrudes uncomfortably) but along an entry quota'd destination thoroughfare route? Honestly? Meh.
ETA: That's with one HUGE caveat: I'm assuming CUA users are still held within the trailhead entry quotas (a correction if I'm wrong), if they're on TOP of those limits somehow then No F'ing Way.
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null
Trail Wise!
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Post by null on Feb 22, 2021 10:14:43 GMT -8
CUA users are still held within the trailhead entry quotas That is correct in both SEKI and Yosemite. Inyo NF is a bit different in that they have a pool of Commercial (?) Service Days (CSDs) that they appropriate to anyone operating commercially. Every day a person spends in the Inyo is considered 1 CSD. So maybe they allot 1000 CSDs for the season. We apply for as many as we think we'll need. 10 people x 3 days = 30 (you only count the days in Inyo, not SEKI). That leaves the National Forest with 970 CSDs for others. But the point is that it's capped by the land managers. Our impact is a very real anxiety for me, but I promise you that our intent is not to create noise, go off-trail, camp in undisturbed areas or impact the eco-system (although I'm sure we do, as does everyone else to a lesser degree). |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 22, 2021 13:42:54 GMT -8
Thanks. And as I noted the High Sierra Trail itself is in that “event” category which lessens overall impact concerns as locker adjacent areas getbteused. I suspect Lyell Canyon is going to be added to that list after the Wilderness Stewardship Plan is finalized: their solution for Little Yosemite Valley I expect, with a mandatory designated camping area with steel food lockers and composting toilet. Possibly somewhere near the Ireland Creel trail junction... (?).
Corridor impact has its own challenges that’s for sure and they’re still sorting them out. Iirc Sequoia Kings Canyon also has a Wilderness Stewardship Plan in the works, their no longer recognizing the Alta Wilderness Permit for travel on the HST between 7mile hill and Kaweah Gap says they’re looking at their own corridor issues alongside Rae Lakes Loop.
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null
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Post by null on Feb 22, 2021 14:32:12 GMT -8
the High Sierra Trail itself is in that “event” category I am not wedded to the High Sierra Trail although it carries name recognition and sustains corridor level impact. I would personally be just as happy to pick my way through the Sierra on some of the many connector trails I know little or nothing about, although I'm not sure that's any better for a group or the land. |
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 22, 2021 15:55:27 GMT -8
Well it IS a route that offers a lot of amazement, though for me that sort of ends after Nine Lakes basin... Valhalla, Angel Wings of Galen Rowell's wonderful poster, Hamilton Lakes, that incredible bowl, then Precipice Lake where Ansel Adams shot some terrific images, even Mehrten Creek when it's roaring downslope flooded with snowmelt. For the rest I'm not convinced it's worth the trans Sierra travel logistics circus act. Trail Crest with it's "windows" IS great, but maybe a better destination from some other eastside entry, maybe Shepherds or Cottonwood Lakes... But then I'm a dyed in the wool devotee to loops, lollipops and all things that mean I'm heading right back to my own car: that freedom from any sort of transportation schedule is something I really value. ETA: At the moment with help from either Lone Pine Chamber of Commerce or Eastside Sierra Shuttle I might consider Onion Valley (Kearsarge) south over Forester, maybe poke at Mt Williamson for a chance to see bighorns, then on south to dayhike from Crabtree to the Whitney summit and onward to Cottonwood Pass (no pesky Inyo exit quota like for Trail Crest). Plan A: get shuttled to Onion Valley from dropping off my truck at Horseshoe before the trip. But for public transportation that'd be moot. Just a shuttle down to Lone Pine and the Dow Villa Inn or Mt Williamson Motel & Basecamp (a good jump off point for Onion Valley) and ESTA north back to the Reno airport from which I'd flown in. lonepinechamber.org/services-available-chamber-of-commerce/www.eastsidesierrashuttle.comdowvillamotel.comwww.mtwilliamsonmotel.comwww.estransit.com |
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Westy
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Post by Westy on Feb 24, 2021 16:39:31 GMT -8
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Feb 26, 2021 10:00:25 GMT -8
In the group’s “files” section there’s a post the OP updates on an extensive array of public transportation options.  |
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Post by stevet on Jun 7, 2021 11:56:09 GMT -8
An option I wasn't aware would work until I started planning this summer's JMT hike...
Cheapest I found, if you finish Monday through Thursday you can shuttle from Whitney Portal to Lone Pine via the Lone Pine Chamber, stay the night at the Hostel, catch the morning EST to Mammoth, and then Yarts to Fresno. The Lone Pine Chamber charges $50 for the shuttle, with 10 of you they may discount the additional riders. You'll burn the better part of a day but it will get you there.
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