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Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 23, 2020 15:53:56 GMT -8
Your immune system is a normal part of your body and you develop new antibodies against intruder proteins every day of your life. All a vaccine does is present some specific protein structures for your immune system to react to as it’s doing every day anyway; no possibility of any years out side effects.
A vaccine is an introduction or two of a specific protein, then your human immunological system does its completely routine job.
These vaccines aren’t “drugs” that might have interactions at low but significant over time levels with body processes other than the intended target in either a subset of patients or a majority due to slight structural similarities of the binding sites.
“Auto immune”? Were our bodies to have exposed protein structures similar to the coronavirus horn protein structure? The vaccine wouldn’t work, our anti-self regulatory immune system process would simply ignore the familiar protein introduced by the vaccine and there’d be no disease protection. From the trials the vaccines do generate an immune response: so the introduced proteins have no structural similarities to any in our bodies. Meaning no “autoimmune” activity is possible. Our immune systems are specifically evolved/designed to avoid that. There are failures, the disease that effects the ion channel family central to my research, myasthenia graves, is one of those, but we’re very strongly set up to NOT have that happen.
Frankly the mRNA and dna based vaccines look safer than traditional ones to the extent I’ve seen little mention of adjuvant (immune system stimulator traditionally used to boost an immune reaction to the tiny amount of introduced foreign protein), possibly because as the genetic approach generates much more target foreign protein than a vaccine injection and so eliminates the need for a stimulus. Adjuvants, being chemicals that are biologically active can induce at least short term side effects, inflammation or joint pain at times. But with only one or two injections, the adjuvant goes away and the side reaction fades.
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Post by autumnmist on Nov 23, 2020 16:39:47 GMT -8
geosp, I too wonder about side effects for the elderly. We're far more vulnerable. When I do get a vaccine, I'll raise the issue with a doctor I know, or ask one of my friends in medicine about the potential for interaction or side effects.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 23, 2020 17:08:10 GMT -8
The central challenge for the elderly regarding vaccines? With much less robust immune systems the immunological response to a vaccine is medically far weaker than in younger people. While that poses a challenge to traditional vaccine tech where a rather tiny, and finite amount of immunogen is introduced once or twice and the patient’s immune system reacts as it may the much larger and more prolonged introduction of that unknown protein fragment specifically coded for by the introduced mRNA or adenovirus DNA and produced by the patients own body could offer better responses for less robust elder immune systems giving them more time to react. Instead of weeks of immunogen presence there’s by months and months. ETA: Prolonged protein production might be a feature of the adenovirus delivery system in particular as dna codes for mRNA which then is used to template the protein. So there’s a continuing supply of mRNA unlike when it’s the mRNA that’s introduced and just produces protein until it’s functional life ends. For the younger, more easily immune stimulated, that may not be significant, but for those with less strong immune systems it could offer a new approach to improved elderly vaccines across the board. The more forgiving distribution conditions being a general bonus. So many new approached. The plant manufacture of immunogen protein being another (though that’s in large measure closer to traditional vaccines and iirc is being coupled with an adjuvant). www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/15/923210562/tobacco-plants-contribute-key-ingredient-for-covid-19-vaccine
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Nov 26, 2020 15:37:47 GMT -8
Unfortunately, this looks like something of a black eye for AstraZeneca link
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Nov 26, 2020 16:00:51 GMT -8
For a two-dose vaccine, that would take almost two years to get everybody. You don't have to get everybody. I think if you got to %85 you would hit herd immunity. Also a targeted roll out could possibly make that come in at less than %85.
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BigLoad
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Posts: 12,911
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Post by BigLoad on Nov 26, 2020 16:04:41 GMT -8
For a two-dose vaccine, that would take almost two years to get everybody. You don't have to get everybody. I think if you got to %85 you would hit herd immunity. Also a targeted roll out could possibly make that come in at less than %85. Even getting to 85% would still be 18 months from when they start shipping it at 1M doses/month to NJ, which is the supposed Warp Speed plan (assuming two doses per person).
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 26, 2020 16:12:38 GMT -8
The production limitations of any particular manufacturer is why all the other 190 projects keep moving forward. No one product or company or medical approach is being or should be relied on.
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