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Post by dabrador on Jan 27, 2016 6:09:50 GMT -8
Hello all. Looking for some specific recommendations on keeping toes and fingers warm while in camp. Some background...
I just returned from a weekend hike in Zaleski State Forest this past weekend. They received a decent amount of snow (6-9 inches) but the temps caught me a bit off guard. Lows for the first evening was -4 F. During the hike, my feet and fingers were just fine. Sleeping at night was fine also (thank you Marmot bag and Exped pad!). The problem was standing/sitting at camp.
We were able to make a fire, but my toes and fingers still got very cold to the point of being painful. On my feet, I had my Asolo Fugitive GTX boots and a midweight Darn Tough sock. On my hands, I had a Windstopper Manzella fleece gloves. But like I said, this wasn't enough to keep my hands and feet warm.
Any recommendations for items that I can pack in and wear at camp that would keep me warm? Thanks everyone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 6:47:21 GMT -8
Your head gear is important to keeping you fingers and toes warm. I use a small piece of closed cell pad as a foot or sitting pad for winter camping.
The body/brain will sacrifice the limbs to keep the brain alive.
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Post by dabrador on Jan 27, 2016 7:05:06 GMT -8
Good point about head gear. I forgot to mention that I was wearing a Buff along with an Outdoor Research Windstopper Peruvian hat. Head and ears were plenty warm. Just the fingers and toes were cold.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 27, 2016 7:06:36 GMT -8
As I always say about winter backpacking, it's all about the Hands and Feet. When these stop functioning properly the trip goes south fast. As you say, when moving under load these 4 appendages for the most part don't experience cold problems, it's only when sitting in camp at the end of the day that things get weird, and most especially in the morning when it's time to pack up the gear (using your hands of course) and rolling up the tent and putting warmish feet into frozen rock solid boots. Been there, done that, got the codpiece that says "Have a Nice Day" on the front. My go-to winter boot for years was either the Asolo Fugitive or Asolo 520 full leather. Quality control has dropped so far in the last couple years with this brand that I won't touch Asolo for winter trips and instead use Zamberlan winter boots. But one advantage Asolo has is getting their boots in Wide sizes which helps when the boot is frozen solid, especially the fabric Fugitive which when frozen solid can be a hell-witch to put on---and your feet will stay cold for hours as you hike. Here are some tips: ** Bring a couple small 3 inch 3-hour candles for in-tent hand and finger warming as you sit on your pad partially under your bag reading or writing. ** Always keep ingesting hot fluids and hot meals. ** Boil up a full liter of hot tea and/or water and place in water bottle and keep this inside your down parka during morning pack up. Cup your hands around it periodically as you pack. ** Get a good pair of down mittens---I like my Mt Hardwear Nilas mittens--- Here are the Nilas mitts in action on a mountaintop in NC.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 27, 2016 7:15:00 GMT -8
Your head gear is important to keeping you fingers and toes warm. I use a small piece of closed cell pad as a foot or sitting pad for winter camping. I agree about the ccf pad and now a Ridgerest Solar pad at 3.5R is always part of my standard winter load. I use it inside the tent for 90% of all my sitting and meal prep etc and then when it's time to sleep I place it ON TOP of my inflatable pad. I have found using the Solar pad on top of the inflatable is significantly warmer than putting the ccf below the inflatable. This pic shows the ccf ready to use as a sit pad before sleep, then easily placed on top of the Trail Pro Thermarest.
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jan 27, 2016 7:15:03 GMT -8
Chemical hand warmers in your pockets, and in your socks. They will heat for 8 hours, so if you don't use them up in one evening, drop them into a ziplock and seal it. They will shut down when the oxygen is used up, and can be reactivated later when exposed to air. This solution is handy on short trips, but less so once the added load becomes too much for long trips.
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Post by dabrador on Jan 27, 2016 7:23:27 GMT -8
Wow...great suggestions...thank you. A few comments:
My Asolo boots are 5+ years old so they seem to be good quality. I plan to stay with them and use them for all hikes, including winter. Any comments/thoughts on down booties for use while in camp?
I love those mittens that are shown above. I found that when my fingers got cold in gloves, I would slide my gloves off a bit and bunch my fingers together to warm them up.
While in camp, I was sitting in my REI flexlite chair so I was up off the ground. In addition, while inside my tent, I was fine. I do like the idea of adding a ccf pad to my Exped to provide additional protection.
I've never used chemical hand warmers. Can you place them down inside a boot?
Again, thanks for the suggestions!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 7:29:13 GMT -8
And, perhaps, upping the sock weight, -4F is on the cold side.
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T4
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Post by T4 on Jan 27, 2016 7:44:51 GMT -8
You can place the chemical hand warmers down inside a boot.
Also, getting blood moving to the hands and feet helps immensely, that's essentially why they are feeling so cold, the body is diverting blood flow to keep more important things warm. I've found that if I stand up, do some jumping jacks, chop some wood, windmill my arms, etc. really helps to warm things up. Personally I don't live in a cold climate, but I've spent many days surfing in cold water temps (mid 40s). If I sit, my hands and feet go numb. If I keep paddling, kicking my feet, swinging my arms, etc. I can keep blood flowing to them and spend much more time in the water.
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idahobob
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Post by idahobob on Jan 27, 2016 9:51:24 GMT -8
when in camp, have TWO foam squares. One to sit on (a lot warmer than your camp chair) and one under your feet. Put a foam square under your feet and it seems like you have a heater under your feet, because the loss of heat to the ground is blocked. If you start getting cold, go for a walk and warm up by walking, and take a little walk before bedtime. If you really want warm feet in camp, get Steger Mukluks as camp shoes. In the sleeping bag, wear down booties. You can also wear down booties around camp, and they are lighter to pack in than the Mukluks.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Jan 27, 2016 11:35:25 GMT -8
Loosen your laces when sitting around camp. Waterproof your boots to the point that water beads off. Wet surface will literally wick the heat right out of your boots. Gaiters (prefer OR Crocks) will also add an extra layer to keep moisture out and capture heat. Aerogel insoles are used for extreme insulation and you should look at them vs. your standard insole for winter use. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AerogelDrink hot liquids and eat black licorice, ginger, or other that increase circulation. If your boots can only fit mid-weight socks, it may be time to purchase a specific pair of insulated boots that work in winter. You can fit chemical warmers in some boots (not all). I spent a month on the ice sheets of Greenland last spring and am prepping to go back in just a couple months. What am I bringing? Two pairs of OR Mitts and one pair of OR modular gloves (can change out the inserts as needed) - all gauntlet style. I will be using Sorel -100F boots with Aerogel and wool insoles, -50F wool socks, and expedition weight Smartwool socks.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 27, 2016 13:38:02 GMT -8
Hydration is key: winter air is very dry and you breath out gobs of water which creates circulation problems: and ultimately frostbite as the body restricts the lessened blood volume to more "important" regions such as your brain and heart..
Even though water is harder to find it's no less, and probably even more, important.
Was that flexible chair insulated? Otherwise you were just exposing more of your body to windchill....
Oh and at those temps I'd think about switching to full cushion Darn Toughs at least.
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snappypepper
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Post by snappypepper on Jan 27, 2016 13:57:48 GMT -8
You've gotten awesome advice. Here is what works for me: Down camp booties with thick cabin socks and/or a chemical warmer inside. Mittens always trump gloves, and most ski type mittens have a zipper compartment for a handwarmer packet. For you, heavier socks would be better. I also can suggest (if the added weight is not an issue) to layer mittens over your gloves, that's my go-to for super cold weather skiing and camping. I use my Smartwool gloves during the day as needed and throw a pair of insulated waterproof mittens over them when we break for camp. Hand and footwarmers are worth their weight in gold if you can swing it, I always keep a pair in my emergency bag during cold weather even if I think I won't need them.
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Jan 27, 2016 14:10:42 GMT -8
+1s to the down booties, mittens, and closed foam pads. You may also want to consider putting better insoles into your boots, sometimes that helps as well.
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Post by hikerjer on Jan 27, 2016 17:39:01 GMT -8
Down or synthtic filled booties do it for me in most cases. And has been mentioned, mittens are a lot warmer than gloves. In most cases, I try not to spend too much time standing around in camp during really cold temps. If I'm not moving, it's pretty much eat, clean the dishes and crawl into the sleeping bag. Then you can read, listen to music or whatever. With a good bag and plenty of head coverage, it can be pretty pleasant wiling away a long winter night.
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