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Post by cweston on Aug 7, 2020 16:05:23 GMT -8
My Marmot Membrane jacket that has lasted ca. 8-10 years delaminated in spectacular fashion on my last trip.
I decided, since every minute I spend moving in a rain shell is sheer torture, and this seems to be only ever-so-slightly less true in high-priced miracle fabrics than it does in reasonably-priced jackets, that I would find the cheapest price I could on a decently-made WPB jacket by a reputable brand with pit zips. I ended up getting a BD Stormline Stretch for just under $100 (by settling for the garish red color).
I think it's basically an OR Helium, but with pit zips. It's definitely 2-3 oz lighter than the jacket I've been carrying, so that's a little bonus. I'll update with impression when I have to suffer through using it.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 8, 2020 10:07:48 GMT -8
cweston, since “waterproof breathable” seems to be an oxymoron, and my jackets never seem to be quite either, I have seriously been considering getting something in a just plain waterproof fabric. I very seldom have to hike with one on, and I’m not sure that I’d sweat any more inside a plastic bag than I do inside my allegedly breathable jacket.
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Post by cweston on Aug 8, 2020 10:21:14 GMT -8
cweston, since “waterproof breathable” seems to be an oxymoron, and my jackets never seem to be quite either, I have seriously been considering getting something in a just plain waterproof fabric. I very seldom have to hike with one on, and I’m not sure that I’d sweat any more inside a plastic bag than I do inside my allegedly breathable jacket. Yep; exactly. I seriously considered the Lightheart Gear non-breathable jacket, but the only color they have in stock in my size is the fuchsia color, which is just a little too "girly" for my tastes. I also considered trying the Snugpak Patrol Poncho, but trusted posters here say that it can be difficult/impossible to get it over a full-sized pack by yourself, so it's not the right choice for my upcoming solo trips. There are people who can hike in a rain shell and not be in agony. My son does it. He has a Marmot Precip jacket (which, we all know, is not the most breathable WPB fabric), and he will actually leave it on after the rain has stopped, which is simply inconceivable to me. I figure if I can spend $100 instead of $300 for a jacket I'll loathe wearing, I'm $200 happier in my misery. |
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 8, 2020 13:39:12 GMT -8
Marmot Precip jacket (which, we all know, is not the most breathable WPB fabric), That's what I have, or one of the ones I've had, and I will confirm this assessment. |
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 8, 2020 13:42:57 GMT -8
Day-um, that's light. Now I'm tempted....
ETA: nothing available in my size.
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jazzmom
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Post by jazzmom on Aug 8, 2020 20:57:41 GMT -8
I don't think it's that black-or-white.
I have a DIY silnylon anorak for when I'm not expecting rain but just want to have something in my pack. It weighs 3oz. It does the job and is very waterproof BUT if I actually move while wearing it, I can see little droplets of moisture forming on the inside. I made another one out of a "WPB" 2-layer fabric that does a decent job; I add a DWR layer that I spray on. Still decently breathable.
About two years ago, I plunked down the money for one of the Arcteryx paclite jackets and it's been worth every cent.
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Post by cweston on Aug 9, 2020 4:37:09 GMT -8
Of course you're right, jazzmom: it's not black-or-white. But I do think many people would describe it as covering a pretty narrow spectrum of grays. I remember trying to bicycle commute decades ago in Seattle, with a non-breathable rain jacket. (The campus is atop a hill.) I would be literally drenched with sweat--it didn't work at all. Had I been wearing a WTB jacket...yes, it would have been better. Better enough to make it a workable form of commuting (for me) in a place where it rains nine months out of the year? I don't know. I do think that there's a pretty wide variation in how well the WPB fabrics work for folks. Also, of course, BPing is probably the worst measure of these things, with half the surface of the jacket pressed up against the lower layers with no ability to breath correctly. And it's almost the ONLY way I ever use my WPB gear: my dayhikes and kayaking are almost exclusively a couple hours or less and near home, so if it's raining I simply get wet (or stay home). What follows is just thinking out loud... In this excellent review article by Outdoor Gear Labs, notice how little variation there is in the breathability scores: the top jackets all get 8s, Marmot Precip gets a 6. My theory is that the wide variation of opinion on how well WPB fabrics breathe is determined more by differences in the user and less by differences in the fabrics. I suspect that they simply work a lot better for some humans than for others. If I were to use a top-of-the-line jacket like your Arcteryx, I suspect that I would say "Yes, it breathes better than the other WPB jackets I've owned." But would it be better enough? I suspect I'd still be miserable carrying a pack in it in temps above 40. But I could be wrong...it's just a theory. |
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Post by Coolkat on Aug 10, 2020 9:56:15 GMT -8
I've come to the conclusion that the only thing rain gear does is keep you warm. It surely doesn't keep you dry. When hiking in rain for very long I can actually feel the condensation/sweat run down my arms if I take my hands off the trekking poles.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Aug 10, 2020 11:35:26 GMT -8
I've come to the conclusion that the only thing rain gear does is keep you warm. It surely doesn't keep you dry. When hiking in rain for very long I can actually feel the condensation/sweat run down my arms if I take my hands the trekking poles. ^100% this. I've tried unbreathable rain gear and end up about as wet as if I'd skipped the rain gear altogether. I'm warm, though. |
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Post by trinity on Aug 10, 2020 11:41:28 GMT -8
On a recent trip to Colorado, I took an umbrella for the first time. I was pretty impressed. Kept me dry without getting me sweaty, and I just carried it slung over my shoulder and deployed it as needed (so much easier than putting on and removing a rain jacket while backpacking). I've been intrigued by the Packa, but haven't been able to talk myself into pulling the trigger. I really don't hike in the rain all that often. |
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Post by cweston on Aug 10, 2020 11:46:41 GMT -8
I've been intrigued by the Packa, but haven't been able to talk myself into pulling the trigger. I really don't hike in the rain all that often. Same idea as the Snugpak Patrol Poncho. I'd want to seriously investigate whether a hiker can get this over a full-size backpack without help. I also don't actually hike in the rain that much. I mostly hike in the Rockies in summer, where rain is typically intense but relatively brief. If at all possible, I tend to just hunker down in place if I get caught in the storm when I'm on the move. I wear my raingear in camp much more than on the move. |
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Post by trinity on Aug 10, 2020 11:55:24 GMT -8
Same idea as the Snugpak Patrol Poncho. I'd want to seriously investigate whether a hiker can get this over a full-size backpack without help. The Packa can be worn as a pack cover, then easily deployed without removing the backpack. At least the videos make it look easy.  I mostly hike in the Rockies in summer, where rain is typically intense but relatively brief. This is exactly why I like the umbrella. Those scattered storms in the Rockies can be a real pain. Rain gets heavy. Stop. Take off pack. Put on jacket. Put on pack. Hike. Rain stops 10 minutes later. Hike another 2 minutes before I'm drowning in sweat. Stop. Remove pack. Remove and stash rain jacket. Put pack back on. Rinse. Repeat. |
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driftwoody
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Post by driftwoody on Aug 10, 2020 13:18:55 GMT -8
On a recent trip to Colorado, I took an umbrella for the first time. I was pretty impressed. Kept me dry without getting me sweaty, and I just carried it slung over my shoulder and deployed it as needed (so much easier than putting on and removing a rain jacket while backpacking). I've been intrigued by the Packa, but haven't been able to talk myself into pulling the trigger. I really don't hike in the rain all that often. The Packa looks like a dang good piece of rain gear. Thanks for that -- ecpecially the last video with Shug, who's always entertaining (I've seen him a lot at the Hammock Forums). |
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Aug 10, 2020 20:09:06 GMT -8
The Packa looks like a dang good piece of rain gear. Thanks for that -- ecpecially the last video with Shug, who's always entertaining (I've seen him a lot at the Hammock Forums). It does. I wish they showed a little more of how it is to use that around camp, with all the extra fabric in back. |
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Post by cweston on Aug 17, 2020 12:04:37 GMT -8
Update: It took forever, but this jacket arrived today. After 15 whole minutes worn in the house, initial impressions:
Pros:
•Perfect fit: just enough room to layer over a puffy, snugly.
•Fabric has a modest amount of stretch, doesn't feel too stiff
•Hood and waist toggles are easy to use, hood seems to work well over the floppy hat I always wear or over a ball cap. It *might* keep my glasses dry with no hat underneath, but I never wear it that way, so it doesn't really matter to me.
•The red color is actually pretty attractive: it's a shade or two darker than "fire engine red," which is what I was bracing myself for.
•It didn't immediately feel clammy, even though I only had a short sleeve shirt on, so my arms were in direct contact with the shell.
•It's light. The claimed weight is 9.9 oz.
•MSRP = $149.99. I got it for just under $100.
Cons:
•Pit zips are small.
•No chest pocket: I wonder how functional the front pockets would be under a hip belt or climbing harness. This is not really that important to me: I only use the pockets in camp anyway.
•One way grams were saved is by using waterproof zippers and no storm flaps. That's fine, as long as the zippers actually are waterproof. I suspect that as the likeliest failure point. We'll see.
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