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Post by autumnmist on Jul 2, 2020 9:49:58 GMT -8
I'm not sure if this should be in the TPA, but I think it could generate an interesting discussion w/o politicization...hopefully. It's a sad state when legal methods have to be used to force compliance: www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/some-partygoers-tied-to-coronavirus-cluster-will-get-subpoenas/ar-BB16g7Wl?ocid=msedgntpApparently some people won't cooperate with attempts for contact tracing, thus subpoenas have been issued for those who refuse to assist health officials in locating others who might have been exposed through public gatherings. A $2K daily fine should be an encouragement for cooperation, but it wouldn't surprise me if some would defy a subpoena. And on that specific potential of large gathering transmission, this is a sad article about a man who died shortly after attending a party, at which a Covid positive man also attended, w/o revealing his status: www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/thomas-macias-posted-he-regretted-attending-a-party-he-died-of-coronavirus-the-next-day/ar-BB16fkgo?ocid=msedgdhpThe dead man was diabetic, and vulnerable, but he wanted to get out and socialize. Another man had the virus, but "didn't think he could infect anyone because he had no symptoms". So he attended the party, and who knows how many were infected? I'm now documenting dates, time and locations, and times of purchase when I go out, just in case. I wonder if we'll ever know how much the virus has been spread by people with resistant behavior and attitudes. This makes me wonder if Americans have become so fiercely independent that they feel they don't have to abide by governmental restrictions. Or is there something else involved?
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rebeccad
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Writing like a maniac
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Post by rebeccad on Jul 2, 2020 11:01:47 GMT -8
Seems like this goes beyond a resistance to government restrictions, and becomes an utter indifference to common courtesy and any concern for others. Though the guy you cite in the second incident, who didn’t think he could spread the disease because he didn’t have symptoms, suggests that in spite of a vast communications effort, ignorance is still rampant.
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 2, 2020 11:23:11 GMT -8
rebeccad , your comment on ignorance reminded me that I've seen comments on other forums that the seriousness is contrived, that there's not a pandemic. In terms of common courtesy and concern (a good description, BTW), I experienced that yesterday when a woman w/o a mask moved her cart next to mine in a grocery checkout line. I asked her to move away, citing the 6' minimum distance. She responded that she had moved to allow an employee bring a cart through, but she could easily have moved in a different direction. When I asked her why she wasn't wearing a mask, she mumbled something about concern for herself, then mumbled something I couldn't understand. I was surprised how irritated I was that she was so totally unconcerned about the risk she could have been creating. I've been thinking sarcastically about working up a good sweat, then going to the stores, hoping no one would get close to me. Or maybe I can find some perfume that smells like a skunk. But I'm also appalled at thinking this way, over something as small and which should be easy for compliance as just wearing a mask.
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almostthere
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putting on my hiking shoes....
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Post by almostthere on Jul 2, 2020 11:34:14 GMT -8
I still run into people who think the masks are to protect them from it, not others. Still see plenty of comments from people who think "the science is all over the place so it's all invalid" without recognizing that it's a new virus and so no one really knows everything we need to know yet. Plenty of self-appointed experts who spent a few minutes reading a website and think they know everything they need to know. I'm starting to wonder if anyone is even paying any attention to the news at all... or their doctor, or you know, anything?
I asked someone if they really intended to give the impression they expected everyone around them to risk getting sick so they can go without a mask. I am not volunteering to die for your "freedom" to refuse to wear a mask.... Did not expect a real response, did not get one. Being dismissive of inconvenient truth is the height of privilege.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 2, 2020 11:35:49 GMT -8
^due to this^ I’ve just about completely switched to my grocery chain (Wegmans) in-line order curbside delivery. Heck given the zero opportunity to impulse buy I bet I’m saving money not just my lungs.
Select from my list of previous purchases, select a time window (sometimes it’s a few days before a good one opens up, I like mid afternoon on a Thursday for best selections, today I had zero changes out of 19 items), check out and wsit for the text message the hour or so before for the messsge the shopper is picking up, any substitutions and I get a text to approve, once done I get a message it’s checking out and will be ready soon, then another when it’s ready for pickup with a link to a page to let them know when I’m there at the pickup curb (from previous orders they’ve got a description of my truck). I get updates as the bags are collected and when the associate is in the way out. They’ll now load the truck but I decline that and do it myself. They’ll send me a review link where were there errors I could sort that out (in 8 orders of similar sizes if about twenty items it’s not ever happened).
I’m a fan, though produce i farmstand (except for onions). Being older and just outside a previous high infection rate city it’s a useful option. A plan B would be like in national parks, go either really early or really late. .
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 2, 2020 11:38:45 GMT -8
swmtnbackpacker, I think the closures are going to come quicker than anticipated; they've already started in some of the states with high confirmed cases. Sometimes I wonder if we've been so complacent for so long, or so dependent on existing meds to handle a large variety of illnesses, that we're just not prepared to deal with something as worldwide and catastrophic as Covid 19. I too have seen the "it's just a flu" comment. I've been recalling that some other cultures characterize Americans as "soft". Now I really can see that these observations have merit. In fact, we may be facing another possible outbreak of a different virus. China has identified a new zoonotic flu strain with pandemic potential. It's been found in pigs. www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/flu-virus-with-pandemic-potential-found-in-china/ar-BB167fvB?ocid=msedgdhp
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 2, 2020 11:41:29 GMT -8
I still run into people who think the masks are to protect them from it, not others. Still see plenty of comments from people who think "the science is all over the place so it's all invalid" without recognizing that it's a new virus and so no one really knows everything we need to know yet. Plenty of self-appointed experts who spent a few minutes reading a website and think they know everything they need to know. I'm starting to wonder if anyone is even paying any attention to the news at all... or their doctor, or you know, anything?
I asked someone if they really intended to give the impression they expected everyone around them to risk getting sick so they can go without a mask. I am not volunteering to die for your "freedom" to refuse to wear a mask.... Did not expect a real response, did not get one. Being dismissive of inconvenient truth is the height of privilege.
Where were they all when us hippies were having OUR Constitutional rights crushed by requiring we wear shoes to get fed! Or the gym rats being compelled to wear shirts covering all that definition! Masks? Somebody needs to buy non smear makeup and get over it. ETA: for myself? Were I to enter an establishment and see either staff or close by customers unmasked? I’d walk right back out. I worked in a medical school for close to thirty years, biomedical research for closer to fifty; no way I’m risking my health via someone else’s idiocy when I know better from training and experience. Cloth masks reducing oxygen below OSHA levels? Raising CO2 above the threat threshold? Krikey. But hey, they do they. Hopefully long enough before November 😎😎😎
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 2, 2020 11:48:51 GMT -8
I am not volunteering to die for your "freedom" to refuse to wear a mask Love it! High Sierra Fan , I'm trying to adapt to this thought, but keep wondering ...will the person who packs it be wearing a mask since this is done out of sight? Are the containers disinfected? Is the shopping cart or transit cart disinfected? A friend and a relative have both said that they've gotten substitutions which weren't what they wanted, and that's another concern. I think finding a smaller store might be better than the chain stores. One of the benefits though would be elimination of spontaneous and spur of the moment purchases, such as chocolate. Where were they all when us hippies were having OUR Constitutional rights crushed by requiring we wear shoes to get fed! I think that was about the time when women threw away their bras in protest. I won't begin to speculate on how the male population interpreted or viewed those protests. Being dismissive of inconvenient truth is the height of privilege. That's a very good assessment.
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Jul 2, 2020 11:55:38 GMT -8
swmtnbackpacker , I think the closures are going to come quicker than anticipated; they've already started in some of the states with high confirmed cases. Sometimes I wonder if we've been so complacent for so long, or so dependent on existing meds to handle a large variety of illnesses, that we're just not prepared to deal with something as worldwide and catastrophic as Covid 19. I too have seen the "it's just a flu" comment. I've been recalling that some other cultures characterize Americans as "soft". Now I really can see that these observations have merit. In fact, we may be facing another possible outbreak of a different virus. China has identified a new zoonotic flu strain with pandemic potential. It's been found in pigs. www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/flu-virus-with-pandemic-potential-found-in-china/ar-BB167fvB?ocid=msedgdhp Whoops accidentally deleted my response autumnmist , but I’ve heard the “just the flu” rationale too many times (pushed by, say, commerce) not realizing influenza is mostly seasonal since it’s been around humans for millennia (1918 being an exception in that regard). The rationale also seems to be a little “whistling past the graveyard“ in those I’ve followed up on. Contact tracers are trained to be polite, anonymous, but also to affirm. If they call they got the name from a verified public health database from a verified case. They are only the first line though. There’s professional public health entities to enforce if need be (realizing no one wants to get sick and the few not wanting to get with the program just need a little coaxing).
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 2, 2020 12:02:27 GMT -8
I’ve seen the carts sprayed right by the pickup spot, all staff I’ve seen are masked, the bags are those disposables, such surfaces are minimal to zero risk (I wash my hands anyway after unpacking). Packaged food is not considered a contact risk and, again, handwashing. I’ve sanitizer in my driver door pocket and use it before getting back in my truck after I load the bags
There’s an error correction feature in the review:receipt process (I just got mine) but since I’ve had none in eight runs I don’t know how that works. Substitutions for out of stock and I’ve received a text message with an approval link so those have been under my control. How other stores (Giant? Acme?) run that service, if they offer it, I don’t know.
People to people transmission is still the largest issue: and except perhaps at really odd hours even smaller stores have people (and less space to distance them in, I was just in such a week ago for milk: two hundred year old (1818 ) country market: lots of people...)
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Post by burntfoot on Jul 2, 2020 12:03:52 GMT -8
Gunnison County in Colorado has a mandatory mask requirement right now. But, at least things are open to some extent, and the tourist season is here. I've started calling people out on it if they don't have on a mask indoors. Often times, they'll say something like "Masks aren't required in Texas where I'm from." I will reply that they are here, so put on a mask or go back to Texas.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 2, 2020 12:13:58 GMT -8
And^ that’s^ the thing. For myself anyway a mask is a tiny price to pay for more openness. And a nod to the reality that an infectious respiratory disease is blooming most everywhere there’s Americans.
OTOH I don’t confront anyone A) it’s pointless just like for LNT B) it’s a long ways to November so fingers crossed [insert evil smile].
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on Jul 2, 2020 12:17:25 GMT -8
In fact, we may be facing another possible outbreak of a different virus. China has identified a new zoonotic flu strain with pandemic potential. It's been found in pigs. Not zoonotic... it evolved from a human H1N1 strain (2007/2009?). And it's been around for several years. At some point it will probably transition, but this virus isn't "new" to anyone in the epidemiology field... just new to CNN.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jul 2, 2020 12:20:43 GMT -8
^that^ happens oddly often. Pigs suffer from human derived respiratory diseases on their farm lots rather frequently. Outbreaks in some states devastate the industry every once in a while.
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walkswithblackflies
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Post by walkswithblackflies on Jul 2, 2020 12:23:03 GMT -8
I've observed that mask compliance here in Upstate NY has been very good. I see the occasional mask under the nose, but yesterday at Home Depot I saw a lady who had her mask dangling, only looped around one ear. I'm not a doctor, but I don't think that's very effective.
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