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Post by ukpacker on Aug 13, 2019 9:24:26 GMT -8
Interesting, more fat certainly makes for a lighter pack. Is there an optimal percentage of fat to carbs in a backpacking diet?
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 13, 2019 9:39:44 GMT -8
The nuts contain more fat which is why they have a higher calorie density,but for high energy activities our muscles burn glucose broken down from sugars which Pop Tarts will be full of or slow release carbohydrates such as cereal products which are also reduced to glucose. I am no going to address everything you have written and will use your statement here as a jumping off point. #1 Hiking is for the most part an activity which requires a steady slow release of energy. It's not a race up a hill on bikes, though it can be intense for short stretches of time. That is why relying on glycogen stores in the body is not critical. What actually allows a muscle fiber to contract is a chemical called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). A single 16 carbon fatty acid molecule produces approximately 107 ATP molecules when oxidized. Compare that to only 30-32 molecules of ATP from a single molecule of glucose when oxidized. Fatty acids are waaaaaaaay more efficient in producing ATP than are glucose molecules. #2 A serving of dry roasted almonds are 170 Calories per 1 ounce or 168 calories per 28 grams. That yields a Caloric density of 170C/oz or 6C/g. Compare that to say Pop-Tarts. A Strawberry Pop-Tart serving is 50 grams (aprox 1.78 oz) and has 180 Calories. It's Caloric density is just 3.6C/g or 101.2C/oz. So using my example from above, if one hiker only ate almonds for a six day backpacking trip and her/his companion only ate Poptarts, their food load would weigh significantly different. At 3500 Calories per day (which is a reasonable amount for 6 days), the almond eater would carry about 7.2 lbs of almonds. The Poptart eater would need to carry 13 lbs of Poptarts, a difference of about 5.75 lbs. That's a huge difference for the same amount of calories. The whole idea of Caloric dense food is to basically get the most bang (Calories and nutrients) for the weight carried. Poptarts don't come even close to fulfilling that sort of need, but nuts do. Of course a good backpacking food supply will have a good mix of nutricianally good fats, carbs, and protein. Usdually it is protein which is the most difficult to get a good amount of. Nuts help with that need. #3 The nutricianal value of almonds faaaaaaar surpases that of Poptarts. Almonds come much closer to filling the nutricianal needs of a backpacker than do Poptarts. They have good fat, carbs, fiber, and protein. With Poptarts a person might be better off just bring a bag of sugar. #4 I am not impressed with a TV stunt, even if done by doctors. One thing I DO KNOW is that I just completed a 26 day/430 mile backpacking adventure on the PCT in Oregon. That averages out to just a little over 16 miles per day, which included 3 zero days and 4 half days of hiking. I had several days when I hiked 23-27 miles. I think at my resupply stops I ate a total of 3 cheeseburgers, 2 slices of pizza, and a huge breackfast buffet at Timberline Lodge on Mt Hood. Otherwise I ate the food I carried. I started the adventure weighing 143 lbs. When I returned I stepped on the scale and weighed exactly 143 lbs. I did not loose even one pound over all the difficult terrain and distance. I accomplished that by selecting Calorie dense foofs with high nutricional value. Rumi
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Aug 13, 2019 9:42:11 GMT -8
Think of it in terms of calories needed. Fat has 9 calories per g. Carb has 4. Protein has 4. Personally, I burn 4-5000 calories per day backpacking. I am also Type 2 diabetic so I try to keep my carbs on the low side. Given all of that, I shoot for about 3500 calories per day, allowing the remaining caloric needs to come from stored fat within my system. There's plenty available. 3500 allows me 200 g of carb minimum. I try not to go over 300 g. That's my oatmeal, any pasta or rice at dinner, and whatever bread or crackers I eat during the day. I try for 200 g of protein as well, often times going closer to 300 g. let's just call the carb and protein total 2000 calories. (250 g carb + 250 g protein ) That leaves me with 1500 calories from fat. ( 165 g) Notice I am carrying 500 g of carbs and protein and only 165 g of fat for each day. For those of us in the US, that translates to 5.8 ounces of fat and 8.8 ounces each of carb and protein. Totals out to 23.4 ounces per day. I usually round it up to 24 ounces. The trick is to keep the balance of 37% carb, 37% protein, and 25% fat.
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Post by ukpacker on Aug 13, 2019 11:01:30 GMT -8
Thanks, that is less food weight than I usually carry. Think I shall up the cheese and salami rations and cut down on pasta. See what happens.
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Post by ukpacker on Aug 13, 2019 11:40:55 GMT -8
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Aug 14, 2019 10:03:18 GMT -8
One of the oldest foods used in backcountry travels is Pemmican. Pemmican consists entirely of just fat and protein. That's it! The idea that we need huge amounts of carbohydrates, especially in the form of sugary junk food, is a modern and IMO misguided notion. That runs counter to our historical experience.
I am not saying you should not take/eat carbs or even sugary junk food when backpacking. I am saying you don't need it for backpacking, even long distance hiking like the PCT. And if one carries a lot of carbohydrates rather than fat, one needs to carry more weight or suffer thru without sufficient Calories for efficient hiking. Many hikers use the strategy of carrying less food and then pigging out in town. But a body can store only so much glycogen, approximately 500 grams. Additionally carbohydrates require lots of water, whereas fats don't.
The idea that junk food is ideal for long distance hiking is silly and as far as I can determine has no scientific backing for it. Fat for energy and protein to help maintain the body is all that is required. Of course the need to have interesting food allows for carbohydrates. I took a Payday candy bar for each day on the trail. Additionally I had some coconut thin cookies, brownie thins, and chocolate pudding to have in the evenings as treats. Otherwise my diet was nut, cheese, and meat heavy, providing lots of fat and protein. This reduced the weight of my food while assuring I had plenty of energy to keep traveling. Carbohydrates where the least of my food need considerations.
Rumi
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Sept 3, 2019 11:02:45 GMT -8
I've never understood why those recommended calorie per day intakes are so high even when ratioed to body sizes. The Mountain House 2 servings meals or Knorr rice meals are all under about 800 calories total. I always eat whole packages. I do bring a lot of other non cook food like trail mix and candy food though recall years ago it never added up to what is supposedly required. So never pay attention to any of it. I eat to be full and content and never have issues of not having enough energy to lug around my huge weights.
On my fourth trip this summer I'll be starting this week, I have about 8 pounds of food including packaging for 5 days. After returning from trips I am usually a few pounds lighter that rebounds within a few days so is probably just water. The average weight of US males is about 200# so me at 133# or 67% would mean my average daily intake at home should be 1330 calories. I've never eaten close to that daily and no one reviewing my health or athletic abilities could say I have not been eating enough. Am guessing there are numbers of healthy weight females also similar to this small guy. Or maybe this has to do with the meat industry that expects Americans to be consuming lots of meat and other greasy food?
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ErnieW
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Post by ErnieW on Sept 3, 2019 14:51:43 GMT -8
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Post by dayhiker on Jan 14, 2020 18:06:25 GMT -8
I have entered foods in Excel (old version with Macros) I enter the name and amount and it looks up there other data, fat, sat fat sodium etc., when I used to track my diet.
I added a sheet for backpacking , it does a similar thing but compares the weight of an item with what one would get if they used pure fat for the same calories, and the difference is the weight penalty. So if I take a bit of cheese I can see how much it costs me etc.
I used to be on a low fat diet so I would cheat on a backpacking trip , but I found I really needed a sugary drink to drink as much water that I needed and to eat other food. Since your body stores fat and not much carbs I always thought carbs are needed anyway. Anyway I found I had to take things I would eat, and just fat wasn't it. And peanuts are just to dry most of the time. I think if I cooked the water in the food would help but I don't do that.
Anyway I take ginger snaps for breakfast, not much different than a sweet roll etc. Some pretzels for lunch. For dinner, I take smoked salmon, cheese, pepperoni etc. with crackers. With a lemonade or Tang mix for my drink at dinner. I bring chocolate and nuts to bring up my total calories, but I don't eat it all, an 2000 calories is about all I want to eat.
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Post by tipiwalter on Jan 14, 2020 18:18:34 GMT -8
It must be remembered that Colin O'Brady's pulk weighed 375 lbs---or close to it.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jan 15, 2020 9:08:53 GMT -8
It must be remembered that Colin O'Brady's pulk weighed 375 lbs---or close to it. Yeah, I’m not surprised. I can burn 3-4000 calories in a long day of biking (at a guess, based on what I eat during a Century ride, and wake up hungry the next morning). Being in the extreme cold ups the calorie burn, and pulling a pulk across Antarctic ice would burn a LOT of energy. And just at a guess, the guy is bigger than I am, so still more calorie burn. So... yeah, 8000 calories.
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Post by dayhiker on Jan 20, 2020 10:23:02 GMT -8
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 23, 2020 17:20:21 GMT -8
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