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Post by hangingtrekker on Dec 8, 2015 20:05:38 GMT -8
I have a couple of the SOL emergency bivvy's - the thermal bivvy and emergency models. I have never used them, but it hit me the other day that they may be a good addition to a sleep system to add the capability of going colder with a warmer bag.
Has anyone done this before? How much warmth does it add?
I am aware of the breath-ability, or lack-there-of, with the models I have. I have thought about that and if it works well it may be worth getting a breathable model. I'll always have a shelter anyway - hammock mostly, but am considering the tent some too.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 8, 2015 23:15:43 GMT -8
Yes, I have used a bivy to add warmth. The concern becomes, how much moisture are you trapping. It's a tricky balance that requires more monitoring than you may want to deal with. That said, my OR Advanced Bivy adds about 15 degrees. I have been sleeping in temps down to 0 with a +40 down bag, my down jacket, fleece pants, and down booties and my OR Advanced bivy for quite a few years now, completely comfortably.
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Dec 9, 2015 5:30:58 GMT -8
Put yourself (draped in wool or synth) in a VBL in your bag in a biv and most of your moisture concerns will remain inside the VBL.
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mk
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Post by mk on Dec 9, 2015 6:37:05 GMT -8
Do you find these to be warmer than wool socks? I'm having trouble staying warm in a 23 degree dri-down bag while wearing all my clothes. When the temps are only in the high 30s, low 40s! Not willing to invest in a more expensive/warmer/heavier bag at this time, but I'm considering some different clothing choices for sleeping. I already wear my lightweight down jacket. Fleece pants? On my list ... |
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trinity
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Post by trinity on Dec 9, 2015 7:38:54 GMT -8
Down booties or socks should add considerably more warmth than wool. If I had the money, I'd be buying a pair of these: goosefeetgear.com/products/1-down-socks . Is the 23 degree rating on your bag for women? I assume you're pairing your bag with a pad with an adequate R-value? Have you tried sleeping with a hot water bottle, I've found that to be pretty effective on nights that are too cold for my sleep system. |
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 9, 2015 8:12:06 GMT -8
Do you find these to be warmer than wool socks? I wear them over a pair of clean wool socks. Yes, they are significantly warmer than wool socks. I use Sierra Designs Down booties. I have "modified" my pair slightly by spreading a thin coating of silicone on the bottoms with a butter knife so that I can walk around camp in the snow/dirt without getting them wet. When I wear them to bed, I can just wipe off the bottoms and climb in the sack. It's very nice for midnight potty breaks on a winter night. |
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almostthere
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Post by almostthere on Dec 9, 2015 8:28:49 GMT -8
Google up the Stephenson's Warmlite page and behold the wonder that is a triple-layer bag with VBL - it's done well for them over the years and there are those who can afford them and use the system well.
I have Goose Feet with the over-bootie, which is Dyneema with a foam insert in the bottom for insulation while walking. They are the bomb. No need to drag dirt into the tent - leave the overbootie in the vestibule. I love 'em.
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mk
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Post by mk on Dec 9, 2015 17:08:25 GMT -8
Is the 23 degree rating on your bag for women? I assume you're pairing your bag with a pad with an adequate R-value? Actually no - for women it's 35 degrees. I think I probably should get a bag specific for women, since I do sleep cold. I did have a cat's meow women's bag but it was too confining for me since it's a 5'6" bag and I'm just shy of 5'5". My 5'1" daughter loves it, though. I have a Thermarest neo-trekker air, with a 3 R-value. I thought that would be adequate for temps down into the 30s. Am I mistaken? I'm trying to go as light and compact as is reasonable, but I also want to be comfortable! I don't expect to do any hardcore winter camping, but down to freezing is probably likely. I like the hot-water bottle idea, although the guys I backpack with will think I'm nuts. They sleep in shorts (no shirt) while I'm wearing all of my clothes, including jacket, gloves, hat and socks ... and I'm still cold. |
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mk
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Post by mk on Dec 9, 2015 17:18:04 GMT -8
the wonder that is a triple-layer bag with VBL - That is definitely an amazing system. I probably wouldn't want to get up and moving on a chilly morning with that set-up. But for the weight and the cost, I'm thinking I could probably get and carry a lot of down and fleece clothing (including the booties!) |
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trinity
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Post by trinity on Dec 9, 2015 18:19:14 GMT -8
I think I probably should get a bag specific for women, since I do sleep cold. Probably a good idea. My wife sleeps very cold, and has to use a bag rated well below the temps she's in, plus she has to wear just about every article of clothing she owns! I have a Thermarest neo-trekker air, with a 3 R-value. I thought that would be adequate for temps down into the 30s. I have a trekker, I think I've been comfortable on it down to around freezing but, again, if you sleep cold you might need to augment it with a closed cell foam pad, or maybe look into something like an X-therm. I like the hot-water bottle idea, although the guys I backpack with will think I'm nuts. Let 'em think that. Boil some water, put it in a nalgene bottle, and place it down around your femoral arteries, it will quickly circulate heat throughout your body. |
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 9, 2015 20:00:40 GMT -8
R3 for 30s is questionable. I would recommend you shoot for around R5. The insulation is just as important as what's above.
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mk
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Post by mk on Dec 10, 2015 5:49:28 GMT -8
My wife sleeps very cold, and has to use a bag rated well below the temps she's in, plus she has to wear just about every article of clothing she owns! It's nice to know I'm not alone! R3 for 30s is questionable. I would recommend you shoot for around R5. The insulation is just as important as what's above. Thanks for your help, guys. We're currently planning a CO trip in June, and I'll probably be making some changes. I'm definitely learning with each trip I make, which now totals 4! |
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amaruq
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Post by amaruq on Dec 10, 2015 6:29:06 GMT -8
R3 for 30s is questionable. I would recommend you shoot for around R5. The insulation is just as important as what's above. Perhaps more so. Cold ground sucks away heat faster than cold air. Boost your pad insulation and you'll feel warmer overall. The hot water bottle is something I also employ and recommend for colder nights. I've pushed my -7C (19F) bag as low as -17C (0F) or more with adequate ground insulation, a couple of hot water bottles, a fleece liner, and wool + fleece sleepwear. |
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tomas
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Post by tomas on Dec 10, 2015 7:46:12 GMT -8
R3 for 30s is questionable. I would recommend you shoot for around R5. The insulation is just as important as what's above I agree with Tigger. While it may look good on paper, when you combine it with factors like dehydration and just being tired from walking all day that R3 looks dubious. |
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Post by Coolkat on Dec 10, 2015 9:45:25 GMT -8
R3 for 30s is questionable. I would recommend you shoot for around R5. The insulation is just as important as what's above. If this is correct then maybe I sleep warm. I've used the ThermaRest RidgeRest which has a R value of 2.8. I've used this down to 23 with no problems and it's only 14oz. I started looking into air mattresses after RedDoug was bragging to me about how comfortable he was sleeping with one. But after looking at the R values, cost, & weight I'll just stick with what I have for now. |
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