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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 22, 2019 12:29:23 GMT -8
“No sleeping bag and Pad will keep me comfy if it's raining and windy outside”
Yet untold tens of thousands of people each year, including me, routinely overnight quite comfy in the backcountry with a sleeping bag and pad while it’s raining (or sometimes snowing, in August) and windy outside our shelters. Frankly that’s the only conditions, rain or summer snow, where I’ll bother being in my shelter. Though ever since I was woken up in the middle of an August night by a blizzard melting snow on my face I do set up my shelter, just not hiding the stars from me by being inside unless there’s precipitation (or bugs...). And once inside my sleeping bag any fire would be on the wrong side of all that insulation. ETA: Hence no fire.
Not to mention the thousands, again including me, who overnight after skiing or snwshoeing into the backcountry places like the Sierra, Adirondacks and Vermont’s Green Mountains. Setting up camp ON 100% snowcover. Comfy and warm. Not only possible, it’s fun. ETA: and, again, no fire for warmth. Simply adequate gear for the environment.
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 13:00:45 GMT -8
Which means I have to start a fire which means I need wood processing which means I need ignition source. Open fires aren't allowed at some locations I go. I survive just fine with just a small knife and no gun. Survive what? How long have you survived? I'm not joking here I am I was asking a serious question have you ever gotten lost and had to survive four days and you're telling me you survive fine with just a Swiss army knife ? I don't believe that even remotely I think you're talking about having a camping trip that where everything went according to plan not survival
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Jan 22, 2019 13:04:52 GMT -8
Dude, I don't think we can assuage your neurosis.
Orange shoes have gotten me out of many a perilous situation, but a big ass knife has never been of any help.
HYOH.
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toejam
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Post by toejam on Jan 22, 2019 13:07:01 GMT -8
danny - Awesome thread. How long does it have to go on before we convince you that you can avoid carrying a lot of heavy stuff if you do a little planning and research before you go out? People with good sense trying not to get in survival situations almost never get in them. It's usually the clueless and those pushing the boundaries of good practice/sense.
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 13:07:04 GMT -8
“No sleeping bag and Pad will keep me comfy if it's raining and windy outside” Yet untold tens of thousands of people each year, including me, routinely overnight quite comfy in the backcountry with a sleeping bag and pad while it’s raining (or sometimes snowing, in August) and windy outside our shelters. Frankly that’s the only conditions, rain or summer snow, where I’ll bother being in my shelter. Though ever since I was woken up in the middle of an August night by a blizzard melting snow on my face I do set up my shelter, just not hiding the stars from me by being inside unless there’s precipitation (or bugs...). And once inside my sleeping bag any fire would be on the wrong side of all that insulation. ETA: Hence no fire. Not to mention the thousands, again including me, who overnight after skiing or snwshoeing into the backcountry places like the Sierra, Adirondacks and Vermont’s Green Mountains. Setting up camp ON 100% snowcover. Comfy and warm. Not only possible, it’s fun. ETA: and, again, no fire for warmth. Simply adequate gear for the environment. What shelter are you talking about? A tarp strung up on a paracord in a frame shape? A lean-to? Or tent? You said you bring your sleeping bag into shelter sometimes what shelter? Also the last couple of times I went camping I could not fall asleep even with a sleeping bag because my face was super cold while my body was okay and I got a huge huge headache because of it. The very last time I went I had a tent that had a pretty good ventilation at the top and it got pretty windy that night I did not get hardly more than an hour of sleep, before I would wake up, And then try to go to sleep again I guess instead of me going back and forth with you I can just say that for me personally I have to have some walls to keep the wind out you do your thing As far as not starting fires and that being illegal in an actual survival situation I could give a damn about where I'm at and if it's illegal or not the only time I would care about that is if I was in something like some really dry Pine Forest where there's a risk of me starting a wildfire. But even there I would clear as many pine needles as I can in order for me to make a camp fire, rather than freeze to death I feel the same way about it being illegal to shoot mountain lions or bears if the thing is attacking me I'm shooting it
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 13:10:03 GMT -8
danny - Awesome thread. How long does it have to go on before we convince you that you can avoid carrying a lot of heavy stuff if you do a little planning and research before you go out? People with good sense trying not to get in survival situations almost never get in them. It's usually the clueless and those pushing the boundaries of good practice/sense. It doesn't matter how long or how short it doesn't matter to me at all. I understand every single point that you people have made to me but you're not understanding what I was asking of you Every single thing that you people were telling me had to do with trying to prevent you getting lost in the first place and my question was having more to do once I'm lost. If I'm lost I don't know where I am on the map because mostly the ma is there to keep me on track, so that I dont get lost in the first place. same thing goes for at least half of the entire survival kit I was reffering to. I don't need a shovel if I'm not lost yet, but if I'm in a desert I might need a shovel to dig a hole so I can find some water
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desert dweller
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Post by desert dweller on Jan 22, 2019 13:16:51 GMT -8
Time for this to go to TPA.
danny, keeping your cool is a major part of getting out of a survival situation.
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 13:28:11 GMT -8
I carry a survival kit in case I have to survive in the woods for weeks. Get a good PLB or similar and you won't have to survive for weeks. I was looking into spot and Garmin inreach and such before I heard of the plb like I told the other guy a Plb is on my list now as a priority over the other two I'll definitely have that but I still don't feel like it's a smart idea to go into the Wilderness without a big ass kit but that's just me
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 13:30:56 GMT -8
It seems to me, most of you are betting on the fact that other hikers will come across you or that you will have cell phone signal or that you have a beacon Actually, I think most of aren't "betting" at all. We plan a backpacking trip and not a Bear Grylls episode. We expect to be largely self-sufficient, including carrying a stove and fuel for cooking. . A stove and fuel is for boiling water not for keeping warm or even cooking fish or something you caught via traps and snares but obviously I've beaten this horse to death as they say I was expecting this site to be more of a Bushcraft thing type site but obviously you people are more about sleeping bags and dehydrated meals rather than surviving in the woods I get it thankfully there are other sites for me
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zeke
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Post by zeke on Jan 22, 2019 13:50:27 GMT -8
In all of the experience on this board, maybe centuries spent in the woods, both on and off trail, I'm betting there isn't a single person who has been more than a day or 2 late getting back out. Carry an extra days worth of food, and it will suffice in most cases. A PLB will reach out regardless of where you are. It works via satellite. Save yourself some weight and carry a PLB. They're about 5 ounces.
Most of us made the error of carrying too much when we first started backpacking. As we refined our skills, we realized what we carried in our heads was much more valuable, and useful, than what we carried in our packs.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Jan 22, 2019 13:54:44 GMT -8
The knife I carry (Victorinox Recruit) HYOH, but you will soon learn that pack weight matters. Most of us try to shave ounces by not packing thinks that won't be needed. Personally I've never felt the need for a pistol or a big knife and both are heavy. I do also carry a fillet knife, but it doesn't weigh much, and it gets used a lot.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Jan 22, 2019 13:58:17 GMT -8
An observation from Everett Ruess, a guy who long ago did more remote travel than most ever will;
‘Midway through his Yosemite lark, he realized that his blankets were unwieldy: he needed a sleeping bag. “My blankets weigh far too much, take up too much space, and aren’t as warm as a sleeping bag.”‘
Good to keep an open mind and a steady countenance so you don’t panic when it counts.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Jan 22, 2019 14:08:55 GMT -8
I mentioned one of my shelters in my first response. A Mountain Laurel Designs Dyneema Solomid. Others currently used are a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 and a couple of older Chouinard Megamids I reserve for winter, Black Diamond still makes them. Terrific floorless big winter pyramid shelters. I’ve prrvuiuseky used a BA Emerald Mountain SL2, a North Face Tundra, a Sierra Designs Mountain tent and various others over the years, rented, borrowed and bought. I’ve occassionally stayed at shoreline, canoe in Adirondack shelters but odds are 98% of my backcountry nights have been in the mountain, desert or coastal west and northwest where such shelters are not found within the wilderness. I’ve only seen photos of the more elaborate trail huts along the AT and Vermont Long Trail. They look nice but I’ve heard they’ve usually got a horrific mice problem. Ick.
Carrying my own I get to choose where I spend the night, by preference on some high ridge with great views.
With everything else toasty warm inside my sleeping bag on an appropriate pad my face has never been cold. I deliberately overbag so my exposed campsites are taken care of: everywhere else I just make my sleep system less efficient. Its flexible iin that direction more than the other.
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desert dweller
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Post by desert dweller on Jan 22, 2019 14:10:30 GMT -8
I was expecting this site to be more of a Bushcraft thing type site but obviously you people are more about sleeping bags and dehydrated meals rather than surviving in the woods Yes. You have stumbled upon a backpacking site. Survival skills are a part of backpacking. But, we don't generally put ourselves in survival situations in order to practice our bushcraft knowledge. I can understand why you may want to hone those skills on occasion, but to go out to purposefully find or create survival scenarios to put that knowledge to use really isn't the type of activity most of us participate in. Nothing wrong with it, of course.
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danny
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Post by danny on Jan 22, 2019 14:16:22 GMT -8
The knife I carry (Victorinox Recruit) HYOH, but you will soon learn that pack weight matters. Most of us try to shave ounces by not packing thinks that won't be needed. Personally I've never felt the need for a pistol or a big knife and both are heavy. I do also carry a fillet knife, but it doesn't weigh much, and it gets used a lot. I'm aware that ounces add up but I guess I also forgot to mention to you people that I would never go on a hike longer than 5 miles or so I am not talking about the Appalachian Trail granted if I got lost I could end up walking and surviving 100 miles esp without that plb thing or if it got damaged of stopped working I go to the woods to explore not to exercise exercise is secondary I don't understand people who go hiking to exercise just go to the gym
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