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Post by trinity on Dec 21, 2018 6:26:30 GMT -8
This is at least tangentially related to RedDoug's post, The Passing of an Era. I am a fellow Luddite, I do not own a smart phone, and don't even own my own cell phone, I only carry a flip phone provided by my church for pastoral emergencies.
When backpacking I am strictly a map and compass guy, and have never used gps. However, I have found myself in more challenging navigational situations recently, and have been considering purchasing a gps device, probably a eTrex 20, to supplement my maps. Then I got to thinking; I've also been wanting a new camera, and it seems like smart phones now have high quality cameras. So I got to wondering, should I purchase a smart phone, solely for the purpose of backpacking? That sounds counter-intuitive, but it would probably save me money over the purchase of a gps unit and a camera, and it would save me a ton of weight; in addition to the two items mentioned I could leave my e-reader at home, plus I always carry a bird field guide with me, a relatively heavy item which could be replaced, as I understand it, with an app. My questions are: can a phone do that stuff (especially gps) without purchasing a subscription plan? I don't know anything about smart phone technology, so I'm not clear whether or not that is possible. If I have to purchase a plan of some sort, that would be a non-starter. I would never use the phone except while backpacking. And even though this is ultimately a personal question only I can answer, what do you think; should a technophobe like me just stick with last century's dated and heavy technology, or hold my nose and enjoy the weight savings? If you carry a smart phone in the back country, how do you use it? Do you find that the technology enhances your wilderness experience, or detracts from it?
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Dec 21, 2018 8:51:04 GMT -8
My iPhone has an independent gps chipset no other connectivity needed at all. You do need a third party app to use it with good hiking map sets or sat imagery.
The cameras are good and better with a good third party camera app. I use Procamera. It addresses the two shortcomings of small sensors, dynamic range, which you may need more of outdoors, and noise in low light. It also lets me shoot raw to get all the untrammeled data possible.
I had to start dropping weight for age related injuries like many of us and found this to be the only way to have these capabilities on me for the miles afoot.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Dec 21, 2018 9:25:11 GMT -8
To answer a few more of your questions you really don’t even have to activate phone service on an iPhone you buy outright at the Apple store. I found a good service for $7/mo and like to think it might come in handy but I also 86’d my landline so that alone will pay for my phone in 2&1/2 years, then it will be a “free” phone.
Gaia does cost $20 a year but how much does a dedicated gps cost divided by 10 or however many years you will use it? You can most likely find something without a subscription but most good apps cost either that or a one time feel
I actually don’t use the gos that much but really like it when I do. I have many reference books downloaded on my device.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 10:28:11 GMT -8
The problem with smart phones IMO is the battery usage.
A Garmin handheld like the etrex20 can last up to 25 hours....and many of the Garmins now have camera's etc.
I much prefer my Garmins (I have two handhelds) and will continue on with them.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Dec 21, 2018 10:38:05 GMT -8
I’m skeptical. For the money any phone would cost you could get a decent little point and shoot “real” camera (canon makes some nice ones) and a decent handheld gps unit. Plus both those have swappable batteries meaning you could carry enough backup as needed. There’s backup batteries (Anker) for recharging phones: but it’s more gear and weight.
Books and maos could be loaded via WiFi connectivity. But, Seems too much trouble. Books could be loaded from a computer (at least a Mac) but even so. My bottom line is if you’re serious in not using it as a service connected phone just get the other devices. Far less hassle, especially for some one less technically inclined (if you were you’d have a smartphone already).
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Dec 21, 2018 11:06:16 GMT -8
The problem with smart phones IMO is the battery usage. A Garmin handheld like the etrex20 can last up to 25 hours... That is true. My garmin gets 36 hours but my iPhone gets 10 of multi use with the screen on. I turn the screen off and put it in airplane mode when making a gps track, saves power. The Anker power packs will charge the phone and they do go up in weight and bulk with the more charges and power they store. I think a 2 charge unit was a quarter pound.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Dec 21, 2018 11:10:32 GMT -8
Mediocre optics and such aside, phones will never be competitive with real cameras or real GPSes until manufacturers give up their (stupid, idiotic, malicious) unremovable batteries. Not holding my breath.
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reuben
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Post by reuben on Dec 21, 2018 13:57:31 GMT -8
I succumbed to a smart phone a few years ago, largely for travel. But by travel I mean places where I need a street map (where's the bus station on Coyahique Chile?), need to make a plane reservation, and maybe check the weather. These things happen in town, not out on the trail. I don't have a map or GPS app on my phone.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Dec 21, 2018 15:16:47 GMT -8
The problem with smart phones IMO is the battery usage. I spent FIVE FREAKING HOURS at the local "Apple Store" yesterday to get my phone's battery exchanged for the $30 they're offering until the end of the year. (10 AM opening time, ate breakfast w/ coffee at the Starbucks across the street, returned, only to be told to "come back at 2:25", walked for an hour, then ate lunch (at the Starbucks again) and returned at 2:25 - but had to wait 30 more minutes to get my phone.) They actually failed to replace the battery - 'cause my "battery health" is still at 86% - the very same level it was at before I went.I have a "post Christmas" appointment now (with the "Genius Bar" ... Yeah, sure.), after making 2 phone calls to "Apple Support". It's Christmas, Apple's iPhone is ridiculously popular, and the store is wall-to-wall with shoppers, from opening time to closing time @ 9PM. Apple employees look like they've been chased for miles by wolves. (They have.)
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rangewalker
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Post by rangewalker on Dec 21, 2018 15:17:29 GMT -8
I am all over the place so you are not going to get a straight IMHO answer from me. In one configuration, I nominally am a map and compass person with an Etrex 10 or 30 if it is in an area that I bound to and am willing to buy the quads or special maps, like Trails Illustrated or Earthwalk for the area. I love the simplicity on 2 AA batteries the can last a full week if all the GPS for used for is to nail locations where private/public boundaries with features are hard to locate. When I am backpacking or hiking in one-off areas, where I am not going to spend $8 a sheet for topo maps or worse, I have a $40 year subscription for GAIA PRO and run the app on my phone or a small tablet. With GAIA Pro, the maps available are just amazing. Avenza you have to purchase them individually. Before I set out. I download the maps or grids I want. Instead of smartphone, and you do not want one, a small tablet that has a Cellular chip, also has a GPS chip that will work mapping apps like GAIA or Avenza. I have used this setup since 2012 with iPAds but they are heavier and power hogs. And you pay $100 more for a cellular chip versus the wifi only one. My little LG 5X7 tablet weighs less than my Galaxy S8 Active. It is set for ATT but I have never bought the service. Cons, tablet cameras are generally a couple of generations behind the ones in current smart phones. Another plus for simple tablets is the are often hundreds of dollars cheaper than smart phones. Examples: I am hiking tomorrow in an area I know well and have paper quads for: - USGS Quads (2) and NF map section copy
- Brunton Eclipse Compass
- Spot X, no cell service, at all in area
- Etrex 30, locate car, no marked trailhead, and I am going to bushwack to reach trail
I am hiking Christmas Day in a new area, no quads, but promises to have great photo values. This is also when I am hiking for work; looking for bad actors or actions against our public lands or wildlife. - LG tablet with 32 GB SD card, with GAIA app for topo, Avenza with BLM map loaded and Black Web 1000mh battery pack. MS Word for field notes
- Eclipse compass
- Sketch pad for hand drawn maps, started when I researched the hike
- Spot X can also log way points though I think it sucks for navigation
And finally, I carry a full featured DSLR; all the time.
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tigger
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Post by tigger on Dec 21, 2018 18:50:12 GMT -8
I use my phone as my primary GPS. I put it in airplane mode and then just turn on the GPS. It works great for me. Extended trips, I now bring a Solar panel that gets strapped to my pack so I can charge devices while I hike. I use the GPS, camera, take some video, contact my wife depending on signal strength to let her know things are going according to plan or if I shift my plan. I sometimes keep a movie loaded on it so I can watch if I decide to retire early or want to wait out a storm. In winter, I bring my ETrex as backup. I often still bring my DSLR (as mentioned, MUCH better photos.
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Post by High Sierra Fan on Dec 21, 2018 20:10:52 GMT -8
The one caveat in photos? If your only desired destination is Instagram, Facebook and the occasional email and you’ve zero interest in wildlife where a telephoto lens is mandatory then modern day smartphone cameras are quite good. For instance? For normal view shots on my phone screen the difference between my iPhone XS MAX and my Nikon d850, 45.4 megapixels isn’t at all “worth” the extra four to five pounds (1700 grams w a 28-300 zoom).
The better ereader and map display might be a mini tablet. I’m not sure what current capabilities are in terms of gps or camera.
ETA: The iPad mini with WiFi+ cellular (304 gyms) has full gps. The camera is 8 megapixel versus 12 for my iPhone XS Max (208 gems).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2018 4:21:35 GMT -8
I use a GPS with rechargeable Li batteries, my wife carries a Kindle, and we are switching to rechargeable Li headlamps. I own a home made USB Li- recharger that will recharge the Kindle, my wife's phone, 2 times, the GPS batteries and still has capacity to charge other items. I charged my wife's phone as part of testing the capabilities of my home made USB recharger; I ran multiple tests over the course of several weeks.
I been following Vlogs and BLOGS of PCT through hikers for a number of years. The trend towards rechargeable devices has taken hold. At first solar rechargers were the rage. Over time the switch has been made towards USB portable rechargers.
A phone, a stand alone GPS, or something else consider adding, as part of the plan, the ability to field recharge your electronics. You may want to consider the devices ability to recharge an iPhone or Samsung and how many times it will charge those devices. Recharging an iPhone or Samsung is a comparison measure over the number of, say, 20000mAh. For most people 20000mAh means blazbart biznap.
I own a small USB recharger, doubles as a flashlight, that can recharge my GPS batteries one time.
If you do go the Li-ion recharge route for best battery life, once every ten recharge cycles, before recharge, leave the batteries in the device, energized, allow the batteries to completely drain before recharging. Do not store the batteries in the device or, if batteries are kept in the device, energize the device once a week for at least 30 seconds. In cold temps, either keep the batteries warm or energize the cold device / batteries for 20-30 seconds, de-energize, re-energize and use as normal.
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swiftdream
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Post by swiftdream on Dec 22, 2018 6:21:47 GMT -8
The one caveat in photos? If your only desired destination is Instagram, Facebook and the occasional email and you’ve zero interest in wildlife where a telephoto lens is mandatory then modern day smartphone cameras are quite good. For instance? For normal view shots on my phone screen the difference between my iPhone XS MAX and my Nikon d850, 45.4 megapixels isn’t at all “worth” the extra four to five pounds (1700 grams w a 28-300 zoom). The better ereader and map display might be a mini tablet. I’m not sure what current capabilities are in terms of gps or camera. ETA: The iPad mini with WiFi+ cellular (304 gyms) has full gps. The camera is 8 megapixel versus 12 for my iPhone XS Max (208 gems). I have two dslr’s, slr’s before that. My flow with them is work the raw in DXO and send a 16 bit tiff ro finish in Photoshop. Yes, that does make a cleaner image than my iPhone 7+ but only if you are pixel peeping or doing big paper prints. My iPhone has more micro artifacts but most of the time you can only see them at a level that you will never view images anyway. I do like the kind of organic look that gives in normal viewing. I’ve grown quite fond of shooting iPhone Raw with Procamera, processing to 16 bit tiff in Raw Power (the same folks who did Apple Aperture), then finishing in Snapseed. The workflow is about the same for high control of the image files. If the lighting is difficult Procamera has a very natural HDR mode for increased dynamic range. In extreme low light the Lowlight + Lux mode is amazing. All camera controls can be used in manual if desired. The small sensors are the issue and that is handled pretty well with the software. Both lenses on my iPhone are razor sharp. It is a different beast but one that has redefined a chapter in my work. I was even able to shoot a crystal clear video. Where I once humped a dslr with two lenses all over creation like some of you, I no longer feel the need. After decades of working the big cameras I do understand those who still use them though.
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Post by trinity on Dec 22, 2018 11:59:31 GMT -8
This is all extremely helpful, thank you all so much. For now, I think I've been talked out of getting an iphone, which is a huge relief to me. As some have suggested, I may look into a small tablet in the future. Thanks again.
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