|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 10, 2015 12:28:47 GMT -8
Ah yes, Trail Camp. So a Plan "B"? Hit the Whitney Summit (the southern terminus of the John Muir Trail is the summit) and then head WEST on the High Sierra Trail and out at Crescent Meadow in Sequoia. Some grand country and for a benefit you exit on the same side of the mountains as you entered making logistics perhaps an easier solve. Given you have to walk out to the Portal anyway it's not all that much extra and missing that drop from Trail Crest to Trail Camp is, if anything, a bonus. www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/high-sierra-trail.htmBtw if you might be joining them for segments two I'd suggest looking into are Tuolumne Meadiws to Reds Meadow and the JMT portion of the North Lake-South Lake route. Evolution Valley is a treasure.
|
|
|
Post by JRinGeorgia on Nov 10, 2015 15:01:59 GMT -8
You will still fight for campsites every night, so I don't know how it would seem less crowded. True dat, I was talking about passing people, or not, on the trail. Some camping spots may be busy, but the overall effect still will seem less crowded if you see fewer people during the day and a lot at night vs. seeing a lot during the day and a lot at night.
|
|
daveg
Trail Wise!
Michigan
Posts: 565
|
Post by daveg on Nov 10, 2015 20:58:56 GMT -8
Wow! Lots of good info, resources and food for thought. Thanks everyone. I'll take more if you have it but you've given me a great start. I don't have a solid grasp of the permit process and logistics will take some figuring out. But that's winter entertainment. Edit: Yes. I'm going to have to watch it. Just a side note here, most JMTers can readily be identified/ (laughed at) by the size of their huge backpacks...often 50 - 60 pounds. At this point in my life I doubt I could carry 50 pounds more than a couple of miles and to accomplish that I'd probably need to take several breaks along the way. Ahhh, to be young again. Currently, my base weight for shoulder season hiking (lows down to 20*F) is around 15 pounds.
|
|
rebeccad
Trail Wise!
Writing like a maniac
Posts: 12,710
|
Post by rebeccad on Nov 10, 2015 21:46:33 GMT -8
I haven't done the JMT, and the issues cited here have been moving more more and more away from that and towards a long non-JMT Sierra ramble. But for a 7-day trip, I can recommend a combo of what I did with OlZeke in Sept. 2014, and what I did with my family last summer--variations on the North Lake to South Lake loop. Zeke & Zack and I did the full loop--in over Lamarck Col, out over Bishop pass, crossing over Muir Pass in between. In Sept., that wasn't that crowded, though certainly not empty. The only place camping was an issue was Big Pete Meadow, which was almost completely occupied by a trail crew.
Last July, we went in, again, over Lamarck Col, but instead of taking to the JMT, we basically just crossed it, went off-trail(ish--there's a pretty good informal trail) to McGee Lakes, dropped back to the JMT at Sapphire Lake, then back into Darwin Canyon and over Alpine Col & Paiute Pass. We only did about 3 or 4 miles total on the JMT, and as expected saw more people there than the whole rest of the trip, by about a factor of 3.
I'd be tempted to try to parallel the JMT in the higher country for long stretches, if I ever get around to it at all. Some of that's not feasible--I know about the Sierra High Route, and that's a mountaineer's route, not for the likes of me. But a lot of that country is passable, and I'd rather wander in the high lakes away from the crowds, even if I never make it from Whitney to Yosemite.
|
|
|
Post by ecocentric on Nov 11, 2015 6:25:43 GMT -8
It's been about 18 years since I walked the Sierra High Route, but there was a lot of solitude and the mountaineering wasn't that difficult. It was a heavy snow year so an ice axe was useful.
|
|
idahobob
Trail Wise!
many are cold, but few are frozen
Posts: 198
|
Post by idahobob on Nov 11, 2015 8:53:29 GMT -8
From South Lake to Whitney you can parallel the JMT and be in sparsely traveled country, better scenery than the JMT. If you exit at New Army Pass instead of Whitney, you miss the whole circus of Whitney day hikers.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 11, 2015 11:21:51 GMT -8
Having more of a wandering style, through hikes of named routes hasn't caught my interest as of yet but I can see the attraction and entertainment value for others, amongst other things there's a sense of accomplishment upon "finishing" a delineated goal I expect.
So I can see Happy Isles to the Whitney Summit as something with an inherent value and it does go through some very, very, nice landscape. If that's what's caught their excitement and interest I say go for it.
As to campsites, for those valuing some solitude it's more a matter of planning I would think: don't plan to end days at the usual places such as an iconic lakeshore (or Little Yosemite Valley), and expect to hike off away from the trail to locate a spot for the night (I've literally stepped OVER people on the JMT towards evening on short sections I've done in SEKI between Lake South America and Whitney: just STRANGE when that country back there behind the Crest is rather huge, IMHO, if the stream crossing is the best water source I'll follow it UP and get out of sight and out of the bugs and people...)). The added benefit of that is in certain seasons by going higher onto rocks and into more windy locales the mosquitos are left behind in their preference for the grassy riparian shorelines and lowlands. Heading up usually leaves both mosquitos and people behind... another value for both good maps and a nice mapping gps: the mapping gps gives you that realtime "peek" over a ridgeline as to whether, at the end of the day when you're tired there's a potentially nice spot right up and over "there" without having to slog up and back on speculation: just set the thing to a detailed scale with pointing axis turned on and swu=ing the unit in line with where you want to 'look". I've found some nice places for photography that way while wandering, little meadows and such that might have been hinted at by the geography but were easily confirmed on the display.
Because I am really bothered by bugs I've found that carrying a 2 oz.. folding bucket from Sea 2 Summit that I can dip and carry back to my campsite away from the water associated insects for filtering, makes sites away from water very doable. Totally worth the 2 oz.
|
|
daveg
Trail Wise!
Michigan
Posts: 565
|
Post by daveg on Nov 11, 2015 19:55:43 GMT -8
Although originally from the west coast, most of my adult life and all my backpacking has been east of the Mississippi, so I'm not familiar with the permit system in CA. Several of you have mentioned alternatives to the JMT. Is a permit also required for those trails or just for the JMT? Is there an online map which shows the various trails?
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 11, 2015 20:45:15 GMT -8
|
|
daveg
Trail Wise!
Michigan
Posts: 565
|
Post by daveg on Nov 11, 2015 21:24:38 GMT -8
When you get a permit, do you have to specify an itinerary or specific area where you'll be hiking? So, for example, hikers who don't have a permit for the JMT don't end up hiking on the JMT.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 11, 2015 22:20:29 GMT -8
Wilderness Permits are largely traffic management tools to keep too many people from crowding into each other and spoiling everyone's experience and over pounding the landscape as well as a way to track visitor numbers for overall planning. So you get a permit for a specific trailhead for a specific date and about where you think you'll spend that first night (iirc) and you specify how long you'll be out and where you'll exit the backcountry and that's about it. With a handful of exceptions the wilderness in the Sierra is managed for dispersed camping meaning there are no designated camping sites like in Great Smoky Mountain National Park. As the JMT page explains Yosemite has had such an increase in through hiker applications for permits that they've started to manage exits over Donohue Pass with an exit quota within the overall starting quotas for the usual JMT start trail heads, maybe 5 out of the dozens throughout the park. But that's unusual. www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermits.htmPeople hike on portions of the John Muir Trail for routes other than a through hike to Mt. Whitney, I did last July, so my permit was about the trailhead quota and nothing about the JMT as I wasn't exiting out of the park at Donohue following the JMT. And the year before a portion of my return route was on a different portion of the JMT and again that was irrelevant.
|
|
daveg
Trail Wise!
Michigan
Posts: 565
|
Post by daveg on Nov 12, 2015 7:03:54 GMT -8
Thanks HSF. You've been a great help. I've ordered Wenk's book. Now I want to put together a collection of maps showing the various trails and trailheads in the area. I've been toying with the idea of hiking the western mountains (and deserts) for years. My daughter's interest seems to have spurred me to finally do it.
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 12, 2015 9:37:10 GMT -8
A good overview maps can be found from Tom Harrison, I don't find them detailed enough for actual over the ground navigation, but they are great for overviews. tomharrisonmaps.comFWIW I've both the Yosemite and Sequoia Earthrover/Tom Harrison map apps on my iPhone and find them useful. itunes.apple.com/us/artist/earthrover-software/id301377729National Geographic's Trails Illustrated is another good set as they offer both full park overview maps and in the case of larger parks such as Yosemite (it's the size of the state of Rhode Island), quadrant maps dividing the park into four sections for greater detail. The Yosemite Conservancy online store offers some of them, as does Amazon and REI stores.. www.yosemiteconservancystore.com/233/2010-store.htmThe Sequoia Natural History Association has a similar online store: www.sequoiahistory.org/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=48For a source of reading material the hiking guides published by Wilderness Press can be seen at their website and I've found them reliable over decades. They tend to be more comprehensive than the Falcon Guides, though some of those have improved through the revised editions. But California and the Sierra in particular were Wilderness Press' start and main doorway to success and they're very good still. Sierra North, Sierra South in particular are longstanding classics.
|
|
markskor
Trail Wise!
Mammoth Lakes & Tuolumne Meadows...living the dream
Posts: 651
|
Post by markskor on Nov 12, 2015 11:00:45 GMT -8
Just a bit more Muir... Many "novice" JMT hikers, maybe a bit un-sure of wilderness abilities, or needing to have all plans cemented in place before leaving, or perhaps just afraid of serendipity...they leave Happy Isles with a pre-set Muir agenda in hand. Lots of comprehensive maps with little red X's pre-drawn - where to camp on this day, how many miles to hike that day. This (IMHO), is foolish... attempting to impose your city schedule on the mountain's...that's not at all how it works on a 20+ day thru-hike adventure. The mountain/trail allows/ sets the rules... Its the trail's agenda, not yours.
Rain, crowds, conditioning, gear, maps with red X's, attitude, preparation, food choices, type of shoes worn, packweight...the trail doesn't care. The trail is the master for the next 220 miles. (BTW, the reason no longer do thru-hikes...not wanting to be a slave to any trail anymore.) Best advice is yes, be familiar with all your TOPO maps, but be flexible. Conditions change; chit happens; it rains. As soon as you accept who the real boss is, acquiesce...the better your MUIR experience will become. Camp where it feels right that day, hike until you are tired, stop wherever overcome by sheer Sierra majesty. Need a zero day? Take it. Five more extra miles that day? Sure. Trail friends are stopping/visiting/fishing at a lake off-trail? Join in. Hot springs? Heck yes! Trail Magic!
You will be hiking with (or passing by) 80+ backpackers a day. Chat them up; ask where the best secrets are really located. Take advantage of current trail knowledge.
Give yourself one, unscheduled zero day each week...BTW, even though your permit says 20 days, no ranger (maybe your wife though) is going to bust you if you are few days (a week?) over your pre-set schedule.
FYI, on my last Muir, the permit said 25 days. I left HI with 5 days food and a credit card...no pre-sent food drops, and a single (albeit large) TOPO map. 32 days later, hit the Portal happy. I bought, swapped, sponged, or hiker-boxed ample provisions wherever the opportunity presented itself, stopping everywhere, and also traded stringers of fish too for a few extra night's dinners that last 100 miles...best Muir ever! Just my 2¢
|
|
|
Post by High Sierra Fan on Nov 12, 2015 12:52:42 GMT -8
And I'd add in that regard: on the day it snows on you in July or August taking the day "off" rather than pushing on because your calendar says you "must" and wetting out your boots as you slog through the couple of inches of melting snow and getting miserable, well, the blizzard says it's a down day and best to take it.
|
|