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Post by absarokanaut on Jun 5, 2017 14:37:58 GMT -8
Share similar sentiments with the crothcedy old bastage OP.
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whistlepunk
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Post by whistlepunk on Jun 5, 2017 15:10:18 GMT -8
If you have cell phone coverage it is not real wilderness anyway.
If there is a trail and there is a chance you may encounter someone else it is not real wilderness.
If you are required to get a permit and hike only on certain days from certain trailheads and camp only in designated sites with an approved itinerary it is not a real wilderness.
Solitude is where you make it. I went for bike ride yesterday on dirt roads in a corporate forest. Did not see a soul. I had more solitude than on many Wilderness trails I have hiked.
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whistlepunk
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I was an award winning honor student once. I have no idea what happened...
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Post by whistlepunk on Jun 5, 2017 15:48:46 GMT -8
"See, that's not the Cohutta. You drive up, park the car and start walking. No fees, permits or anything."
There are several like that. Some have a self register kiosk at the trailhead, some do not even have that. Off trail, no problem. Camp where you want for as long as you want.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Jun 5, 2017 17:46:06 GMT -8
Camp where you want for as long as you want. I'll print this out and use it as my permit.
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Post by Lamebeaver on Jun 6, 2017 6:09:17 GMT -8
I think what the OP was getting at was that "Wilderness" is not just a legal definition of a tract of land, but rather a state of mind.
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BigLoad
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Post by BigLoad on Jun 6, 2017 7:39:24 GMT -8
I think what the OP was getting at was that "Wilderness" is not just a legal definition of a tract of land, but rather a state of mind. It's true. My mind is a wilderness populated by a handful of lost souls.
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Jun 6, 2017 7:41:03 GMT -8
My mind is a wilderness populated by a handful of lost souls. TMI! Rumi
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RumiDude
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Post by RumiDude on Jun 6, 2017 9:58:14 GMT -8
I think what the OP was getting at was that "Wilderness" is not just a legal definition of a tract of land, but rather a state of mind. Exactly! To the degree something connects me to the outside world, to that degree my "wilderness" state of mind is degraded. I was just reading a post on the PCT Class Of 2017 page about InReach messages of a guy out in the Sierra. This reinforces the idea that if you have the capability you use it. It's the "hey, guess where I am calling you from" kinda thing. I know people that use their InReach to say goodnight to their children each night while out on the trail. Why? Because they can, they have the capacity to do it. And communication device we carry out there changes our relationship to the natural environment, i.e. the wilderness. Thus, we should be careful about what we take if we value that feeling of being "out there" in the wilderness. Some things enhance our wilderness experience and some things detract. Carrying binoculars can enhance the experience, enabling one to see things better. A camera can enhance the experience, allowing one to frame the view, so to speak. But a camera can also detract by simply becoming and ends to itself. I hope I am being somewhat clear in conveying this idea. I know HYOH and all that. I am just trying to say that as we adopt new technologies that we are careful to preserve our wilderness experience. Rumi
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Post by plaidman on Jun 6, 2017 13:53:47 GMT -8
If you are required to get a permit and hike only on certain days from certain trailheads and camp only in designated sites with an approved itinerary it is not a real wilderness. I try to remind myself of this every time I get a permit and go to such places. It helps me adjust (lower) my expectations. I can't help but think about what it must have been like for John Muir on his explorations of the Sierra. Would I trade my modern conveniences to experience that? You bet! Well, everything except the bear spray.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 14:43:02 GMT -8
Frank Church River Of No Return Wilderness. At 2.367 million acres (9,580 km2), it is the largest contiguous federally managed wilderness in the United States outside of Alaska.
Went there last year for the first time, the Frank Church has a solid feel of being out there. Cell phones stopped working several hours from the trailhead. Self issued permits at the trail head. The ranger at the Chamberlain Landing strip said we were the 2nd group of hikers she had seen in years, besides research people.
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Post by plaidman on Jun 6, 2017 15:18:26 GMT -8
Good news! The latest plan is to head up to Chamberlain the first week of July for a trip up around the lakes to the west. I took a nap in the shade along the creek below the airstrip one afternoon a few years ago and woke up to see a wolf staring at me from across the creek. We looked at each other, then it sauntered off into the woods when I stirred. It's the only wolf I've ever seen in the wild. Good memories there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 15:28:17 GMT -8
Good news! The latest plan is to head up to Chamberlain the first week of July for a trip up around the lakes to the west. I took a nap in the shade along the creek below the airstrip one afternoon a few years ago and woke up to see a wolf staring at me from across the creek. We looked at each other, then it sauntered off into the woods when I stirred. It's the only wolf I've ever seen in the wild. Good memories there. I take it you mean in the Frank Church? The road to Big Creek is still snowed in. Yellow Pine has plans to plow the road open in early July: yellowpinetimes.wordpress.com/ can help you keep track of the road open and or plowing progress.
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Post by plaidman on Jun 6, 2017 15:59:53 GMT -8
Yes. Thanks for the link. The plan is to fly into Chamberlain and do our trip from there, up to Flossie and Salmon lakes, then south and east back to the airstrip. The strip at Chamberlain should be clear of snow now, and dry enough in a month. I'm not sure what the snow will be like higher up, though. If Profile Summit on the road to Big Creek is still snowed-in it may well be that we get closed out by snow and/or deadfalls from last winter before we can get to the lakes. I'll check the Yellow Pine news, and we'll do an aerial recon and see if it's doable before we commit. If there's too much snow, we'll go someplace lower. Maybe hike down the Middle Fork of the Salmon from Indian Creek.
Sorry for the hijack!
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Jun 6, 2017 16:55:55 GMT -8
I prefer there be special places where we humans can venture into that completely cuts the umbilical cords to the modern world. Just like with our ancestors. Places where if one gets into trouble whether by ignorance, foolishness, or random nature, consequences be what they be. To be fair, that is not to say all wilderness be so but rather significant parts of it.
Despite understanding the emergency benefits such devices have in this era reassuring loved ones, reducing injury and death, if I could press a button that would permanently electromagnetically jam all electronic communication devices in wilderness areas, I would do so in a moment without considerations. That would of course force visitors to venture into those areas with the kind of state of mind Rumi is working to relate. The mind set all we solo adventurers had to obscure remote off trail wilderness places not many years ago.
David
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jun 6, 2017 20:27:03 GMT -8
Count me in the curmudgeon crowd. I don't take a phone and since I take my family with me most trips, I don't need to phone home to not miss them.
It's a personal decision, how much you want to be connected when you're out there, but my choice is to disconnect, in hopes of finding something like wildness, if not wilderness. I can't imagine anything more annoying than getting a call from a telemarketer when I'm sitting by a remote lake somewhere.
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