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Post by johntpenca on Sept 17, 2019 7:13:06 GMT -8
Though I do feel the younger set are less interested in preservation than moving to the next box to check off and tell their "friends". Just another facet of disposable experiences. Quoting myself here. Thinking about it, my dad exhibited that tendency. He traveled the world, but seldom stayed in one city/town/local area for more that two nights, and rarely that. His apparent sole goal of travel was to visit as many well know "must see" locations as possible and fill up photo albums. He kept a world map on his wall with pins marking where he had been, It had a lot of pins in it. When I visited Europe with him, we stayed in a different place every night and never really got to get a feel for the areas we visited. I'm one that prefers to spend time in an area and try to understand the culture, etc. So, as balzaccom relates, disposable experience isn't limited to the younger set. Seems this trait runs across the board of age groups. ETA: I have a friend a few years older than I; he makes yearly trips to basecamps in the Himalaya. Gets choppered to the highest elevation tourists can go, then has porters carry the gear the rest of the way. To my knowledge other than the money he spends in pursuit of getting there and back, he does not give much thought to the welfare of the people or region.
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Post by johntpenca on Sept 17, 2019 7:15:21 GMT -8
You can't possibly know how amusing that is to me, not just b/c of the recollections but just the concept of "being too young." At my age, I wish I was "too young". That line took me aback as well.
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Post by johntpenca on Sept 17, 2019 9:59:55 GMT -8
The youtube video has many parallel discussion on various forums. If nothing else, the video is getting a lot of attention.
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davesenesac
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Our precious life is short within eternity, don't waste it!
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Post by davesenesac on Sept 17, 2019 11:56:20 GMT -8
Photography, even just for the sake of selfies, may over time lead some to greater appreciation of nature because it forces one to address aesthetics. In other words for those that pursue such, a path exists through a window into greater wonders. One may acknowledge the question of the article however that is likely just a passing phase.
One can expect minor numbers of Millennials now racing down thru trails and posting trivial images on social media will over years if they continue to visit natural places, evolve to be more like we older enthusiasts. Many of the rest will move onto other leisure pursuits and never move past a dabbling level of interest and knowledge they now have just like many of our older peers. As a long time snow skier, I'm also on skiing boards. Very few skiers can name any trees at resorts they frequent beyond "pine" or "fir" tree or describe weather or snow phenomenon. For most of them its just a playground. As a twentysomething backpacker, I had a limited knowledge of natural sciences even though growing up we kids spent endless summer days exploring natural areas where I lived in outer suburbia Sacramento. That child's world was our playground and not something to develop deep thoughts and understandings of. Some of the things we did to little creatures was rather cruel as I look back. In pursuit of fishing bait, I hook impaled endless earthworms and grasshoppers and tore off tail sections of crayfish tossing the rest of their squirming bodies into creeks. We knew the common names of some of the creatures, but that was about it. We collected pretty stones and marveled at some of them but our science knowledge was very shallow as none of that mattered. We climbed endless oak trees but about all I knew were a couple common names.
Over about a decade during my twenties, that gradually changed as I began studying natural science books. During that period, my main reason for backpacking was trout fishing as I became rather skilled catching fish. But by time the first SLR film cameras rose about 1980, I'd found a new calling as I became increasingly fascinated by the natural world in deeper ways. That makes me wonder if there is something to the idea that appreciation of the natural world at that level besides study of those sciences, also requires an age maturity or was it just my own situation?
If true, then one can more easily understand the limited behaviors of young people that versus our own current age experiences seem shallow. As though most of we humans require an incubation period that might not even be possible for most as young adults? And such might only develop if nurtured.
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Post by autumnmist on Sept 17, 2019 12:45:26 GMT -8
a path exists through a window into greater wonders That's a good way to describe the wonder of photography. appreciation of the natural world at that level besides study of those sciences, also requires an age maturity I think so. As children, we found places to play, swim, explore. I don't know if the concept of preservation of those sites existed, or if we were mature enough to also develop a sense of stewardship, or relate them to scientific applications. Perhaps we just wanted to have fun. Growing up should I think provide more understanding of life at many levels. But I have the sense that youngsters are growing up at a much faster pace than we did. My 10 year old great nephew is already programming. I was still playing and lavishing myself at lake living when I was that age. I wonder if that generation will feel as though they've missed some aspects of life, or if they will eventually feel their life was more fulfilled because of so many more opportunities. I do hope they feel as though their childhood was fulfilled and worthwhile before they plunge into the world of full time work.
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Post by autumnmist on Sept 17, 2019 12:49:18 GMT -8
johntpenca, I think your father lived life to the fullest, as he interpreted it. And perhaps that kind of goal setting reflected his view of adult life. I've heard of others who set those kinds of goals - older people who want to travel to every state, for example. I think though that these people want accomplishments, and for that I admire them, whether it's one day in one country, or annual treks in the Himalayas, but ideally, consideration of our environment and surroundings would be a factor in whatever we do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 14:41:06 GMT -8
johntp, "telling their friends" seems to be a basic trait of those obsessed with selfies, photos and sharing their lives, sometimes too personal aspects of those lives. You are obviously too young to remember my father and his endless slide shows of our summer vacations. Millennials don't do anything different, they just have better technology. Slide shows.......... One day my wife and I found a box of slides in somebody's trash. We took 'em home. Had no idea who these people were, or why they were in the trash. Looked like just plain family photos to us. So we invited a bunch of friends over , they were used to my slide shows, and we started running through all the slides. You know it was almost a half an hour before somebody finally asked "who are these people??" We told 'em "no idea, we found these in somebodys trash" Their reaction was priceless, but I didn't live that down for a looooooooooong time!
OK now back to the real topic please..............
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balzaccom
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Post by balzaccom on Sept 17, 2019 16:37:19 GMT -8
That's wonderful!
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Post by hikerchick395 on Sept 18, 2019 17:31:09 GMT -8
I'll chime in...YES...photos are ruining the wilderness and remote areas. Spectacular photos are posted and the regular traveler has no chance of reproducing these images unless conditions are epic. Too many people are out there wanting to get that fantastic scene with their own smiling mug in the foreground.
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Post by johntpenca on Sept 18, 2019 19:13:12 GMT -8
Spectacular photos are posted and the regular traveler has no chance of reproducing these images unless conditions are epic. True and funny at once. It takes a lot of shots to get a really good one unless the stars align at the right moments. I've posted this pic before, but this was one of those moments; just pure luck.
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Post by k9education on Sept 18, 2019 19:21:30 GMT -8
balzaccom posts a reasonable perspective. Though I do feel the younger set are less interested in preservation than moving to the next box to check off and tell their "friends". Just another facet of disposable experiences.
Yep! The state and national lands near me haven't shown any evidence of increased funding or public support, but the piles of trash (both in the parking lot and on the trails), wilderness graffiti, etc. are increasing by leaps and bounds. They don't care as they won't be returning any time soon if ever.
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FamilySherpa
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Post by FamilySherpa on Sept 19, 2019 4:33:20 GMT -8
Blaming young people in general for all this seems really harsh and even counterproductive if we are trying to grow a forum thats predominately people at or near retirement ages.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Sept 19, 2019 5:22:34 GMT -8
Blaming young people in general for all this seems really harsh and even counterproductive if we are trying to grow a forum thats predominately people at or near retirement ages. THIS. Lumping “all those young folks” into one dismissive bundle is a long-standing tradition, but it doesn’t seem very helpful to me. I have a couple of those young people in my family (two 20-ish sons), and I’d scarcely hold them to blame for the world’s problems
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Sept 19, 2019 5:46:02 GMT -8
If it leads to more votes for conservation and preservation, I don’t really mind. Part of this may be more childless (or empty nester) adults with more time in their hands too. Towns are cracking down on car-camper types utilizing free overnight parking for instance, and a good chunk of those will be seniors.. www.outsideonline.com/2401916/vehicle-camping-laws-threaten-dirtbagging?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Gear-Fix-09162019&utm_content=Gear-Fix-09162019+Version+A+CID_ce32357445c8bbc5e7c4b7fe82c917cb&utm_source=campaignmonitor%20outsidemagazine&utm_term=READ%20MOREOutdoor recreation is an economic juggernaut domestically and also a prime lure for well-heeled foreign tourists to boot. Let’s face it ... the later aren’t here for the towns unless they have landmarks, .. like San Francisco’s Golden Gate and the Los Angeles area’s Santa Monica Pier .. maybe NYC’s Statue of Liberty (honorable mention for Chicago pizza). Conserving these places, while still allowing most domestic visitors to afford it, is one of those things that’ll take coordination between the federal and state governments. Some places may need to see harder structures, while I’d like to see other places made a bit more remote (putting the parking lots further back). Think most of the garbage still occurs closer to the parking lots iirc.
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texasbb
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Post by texasbb on Sept 19, 2019 5:51:58 GMT -8
Perhaps the selfie scourge has nothing to do with beautiful scenery, photography, or disposable experience. It's just well fed narcissism. I occasionally do a lake bagging hike, just to see how many I can get to. I take lots of photos and will share them with others casually, but they're mostly for my own documentary/memorial purposes. There's nothing disposable about the experience, but any particular lake is a minor part of that experience. I'd speculate johntpenca 's father would've viewed each town similarly, each one being a small part of a big permanent memory (i.e., a non-disposable experience). The selfie hordes likewise have a long-term, non-disposable experience: "me, me, me." They'll eventually tire of pretty scenery and find something else to pose in front of, but the me focus will persist. </cynicism>
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