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Post by autumnmist on Jul 13, 2019 6:12:31 GMT -8
www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/people-are-spending-dollar500-a-month-to-avoid-their-co-workers/ar-AADKyRi?ocid=spartandhpJust read this article and realized that apparently business environments are changing from the norm I knew when I last worked. Not sure I really understand why people working for a company don't work together, so I'm assuming that the flexible spaces are designed for the independent contractor, or self employed, or something other than the traditional work space. The article indicates they typically are for free-lancers and start-up founders, but it also addresses someone who pays to work someplace besides her office. This isn't a concept I understand. Granted that the younger generation may need more freedom and isn't as amenable to work situations than older people, but to pay to work elsewhere other than a company's office doesn't make sense to me. It's always possible to have bad co-workers, but that's part of working, and living. Or is this an aspect of the younger generation's communications with devices more than with real live people? Any thoughts? I'm puzzled by this whole concept of paying to work someplace other than the company office. (Besides, think of all the treats you'd miss - those wonderful days when someone brings in bagels, or leftovers from a party or other event, the group luncheons with speakers...and interactions with co-workers that lead to good and often lasting friendships. There's just so much to miss by working alone. Are those here who are still working familiar with this concept? Is it in fact for those other than ones employed by companies that work together in groups?
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balzaccom
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Post by balzaccom on Jul 13, 2019 6:43:57 GMT -8
The article points out two perceived benefits for the employees:
1. the company workspace is not physically comfortable, and the contract spaces are better. Fair enough.
2. The company workspace is not emotionally/psychologically comfortable, and the contract spaces are better.
In both cases, the company could take steps to resolve the issue, but apparently companies don't want to do that.
I ran my own company for twenty five years. I often had employees who worked from home for a few days each week, and that worked reasonably well. But we had a Monday morning meeting that was sacrosanct. That was the meeting where we talked through all issues and divided up the workload. And I also usually bought lunch for everyone at least once or twice a month, and those were also "obligatory" although nobody ever wanted to miss those. That was part of creating a team spirit. So were the company camping trips each summer.
Companies that don't invest in creating a team don't get the best work from their employees. And that's true whether they work in the company offices or remotely.
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 13, 2019 6:58:58 GMT -8
balzaccom , good points about a company's investment, and that applies not only to the physical environment but the psychological one as well. Another factor I would think is the specific employee's scope of work and whether it can be performed remotely. The women in my extended famiy were nurses, and that still applies. So are most of my women friends. One of the things that has been and still is challenging for them is the 12 hour work day, in hospital settings, and being on their feet for so many hours of the day. I think those kinds of settings are unique and obviously couldn't benefit from remote settings, but the hospital management doesn't always think progressively enough to know how to deal with the stress of long workdays in challenging environments. You don't seem like the typical corporate "boss". I'm wondering how many of those working remotely worked at one time for large corporations, which I could understand being less than ideal environment as I temped at a some, and that was enough. Both of your points make sense; I've certainly worked in environments like that, but at the time I didn't have the professional experience (nor was offsite working even conceptualized), so working out of the office wasn't feasible. I think working freedom has evolved significantly since the introduction of computers though - they were really a gamechanger. Thanks for sharing your insights.
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Post by marmotstew on Jul 13, 2019 8:45:22 GMT -8
I get it. Co workers, managers can be a pain in the ass. But couldn’t they just work at home and save the 250-500
α month?
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sarbar
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Post by sarbar on Jul 13, 2019 9:12:25 GMT -8
My husband has worked remote for over 10 years. He makes sure it is in his work contract. He has done this with 5 companies in that time. He works in tech and is a unicorn so they work with him. He only goes in when truly needed (meetings, etc) though he travels for work as needed on top of that. His track record says he works just dandy remote.
And he doesn't do a 3 hour round trip commute.
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jul 13, 2019 11:36:48 GMT -8
I was wondering if the co-working spaces might also appeal to introverts, but from their description, it doesn’t sound any better than most offices that way. Though I guess if the people around you aren’t your fellow employees you might feel more free to ignore them!
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rebeccad
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Post by rebeccad on Jul 13, 2019 11:38:42 GMT -8
I get it. Co workers, managers can be a pain in the ass. But couldn’t they just work at home and save the 250-500 α month? Some no doubt can. But many in those cities live in cramped apartments, may have roommates, etc., that make it hard to work at home. For me, I know that sometimes I have to leave the house just because maintaining the house is part of my job, and I can’t concentrate on my writing because I’m too aware of the other things that need doing. So yeah, I can see paying that, but honestly only if you are raking in a pretty good salary. |
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 13, 2019 13:26:08 GMT -8
When I think of some of the jerks I've worked for... like one temp job before I escaped from the pink collar ghetto...there weren't enough desks so I was told to sit on an overturned waste basket for a chair, and had to stretch just to reach the typewriter (manual in that archaic era). If I didn't need the money I would have just walked out and told the placing agency to shove it.
For professional workers though, it might just be that there's a stronger ability to stand up to less than desirable co-workers, bosses and working conditions. I recall how devastated some workers can be when businesses close (remember Lehman Brother's' shocking collapse?), and I think younger generations saw that loyalty and sticking with one company for life wasn't desirable any more.
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sarbar
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Post by sarbar on Jul 13, 2019 17:16:28 GMT -8
and I think younger generations saw that loyalty and sticking with one company for life wasn't desirable any more. YES!!!! My husband stuck it out at a certain bank for 5 years, a loyal employee who commuted 3 hours a day for 5 years. When the recession was about to hit the fan we saw it for 6 months before, waiting for the day the gov't would seize the bank on a Friday. Every week we wondered what would happen. It was very stressful. It also taught my husband to protect his brand first and that his skill set was valuable. Many of his current coworkers work remote. The last two companies he worked for nearly no one had an office space. It was expected you'd choose remote, as people lived all around the world. You could live in Australia and be on a team in the US. One company he worked for he traveled all over for, to many countries - and often had his work schedule planned to calls. So it wasn't unusual he'd be up at 2 am on a call to like Romania. You can't do that in a 9 to 5 setting. |
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davesenesac
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Post by davesenesac on Jul 14, 2019 10:30:26 GMT -8
Telecommuting has received considerable media and business attention since the Internet rose 25 years ago. In 2018 stats show just 3.2% of our non home based workforce was doing so at least half the time. Also company's are making that available to only 7% of their workforces while 50% could potentially so at least partially. That shows the majority of companies are not particularly enthusiastic abut letting employees telecommute and would likely feel likewise about working at off site offices. Although 50% of jobs might allow some telecommuting, I'd expect far less are doing work where not having access to other onsite employees and resources might have an impact. Pretty much it is the domain of professional and Internet intensive jobs, especially sales and upper management. Generally the media has always made telecommuting sound like an option available for most professional workers however it has never been. Note with my own work that has never been an option and I would not have been interested even when I might have done so.
As someone that worked decades mostly in hi tech engineering organizations both small and large, there is much to be said for having easy access to others and resources within corporate campuses, offices, and labs. Some may point to email, messaging, and phones as ways that can be done, however many do not respond well to any of those without annoying delays. Managers especially often have lengthy numbers of emails to wade through where they respond to those above them promptly while not to peers or those below them. Thus much an advantage to just walking over to someone's cube and discussing whatever. Also with technical work among a team of people, there is much one may need to rely on others on during a project instead of everyone being versed with all the details that have been divided up. Although some of that may be done over the phone or with email, it is far easier when two people are looking at physical documents, drawings, software listings, running physical products, and actual computer screens etc versus doing so remotely.
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balzaccom
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Post by balzaccom on Jul 14, 2019 10:33:52 GMT -8
The Hidden Brain this week focused on laughter---and the example of a company meeting. At the meeting, those present are laughing together. The remote participants do not see the humor...
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Post by autumnmist on Jul 14, 2019 12:26:43 GMT -8
davesenesac, an aspect which I would miss the most is the intellectual stimulation of co-workers, especially problem solving. Brainstorming is inspirational. A few people I've worked with have inspired me so much. I'm guessing Kelly Johnson wouldn't have been that supportive of off site work, and he's a legend.
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swmtnbackpacker
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Post by swmtnbackpacker on Jul 14, 2019 16:44:34 GMT -8
Noticing a number of cities are louder than before as a few have hit their highest population but little extra building. Some of it could be from general congestion ...
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sarbar
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Post by sarbar on Jul 14, 2019 20:11:39 GMT -8
an aspect which I would miss the most is the intellectual stimulation of co-workers, especially problem solving. Brainstorming is inspirational. That is what all the conference calls are for. And as well meetups. I can tell you my husband spends a lot of his day with his headset on. At the same time, many people work in the same office, same people, for years - where as my husband flies to meet coworkers from around the world. He went to Australia recently and did a multi city tour. He's returning to Asia soon. And in the same way, they come to Seattle as well - and he goes in to do in house conferences with them for a few days, along with after hours events. |
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sarbar
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Post by sarbar on Jul 14, 2019 20:15:42 GMT -8
Thus much an advantage to just walking over to someone's cube and discussing whatever. My husband's current employer doesn't have enough spots for workers - so remote working is promoted if you have the track record for it. Cubes don't exist. You have a place to plop your company issued laptop. In the modern offices of tech it is all open space, rows of workers at tables - all with noise canceling headsets on, unless you have to take a call. Even managers sit the same way. And....the coworkers in your team may be in your "room" or in another building. They use a localized network for messaging in real time to connect. |
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